Barren But Not Ashamed: A Kandid Chat on Infertility

Barren But Not Ashamed A Kandid Chat on Infertility Final

Kandidly Kristin: Hey, hey, hey. Podcast family it's your girl, candidly, Kristen, and this is The Kandid Shop, your number one destination for kandid conversations. Today I am having a long overdue kandid chat about the highly stigmatized topic of infertility and I am joined for this important discussion by speaker, transformational coach, bestselling author of Overcoming the Emotional Stigmas of Infertility, Barren but not ashamed, and founder of Heart Desires Fulfillment Coaching LLC , Frances Jones.

Welcome, welcome, welcome, Frances to The Kandid Shop. I'm so happy to have you here.

Frances Jones: Well, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here with you today.

Kandidly Kristin: Awesome, awesome. So, infertility is a subject that most people avoid talking about, like the plague. Oh, if they're not avoiding it, then they're saying something completely insensitive to someone struggling to conceive. So, I really wanted to have this conversation and hopefully change the mindset and break down some of the stigmas around infertility.

Frances Jones: Thank you for allowing me to be here to talk about this topic because it is crucial to bring healing and awareness to the communities that we dealing with infertility live and thrive in every day.

Yes, there are stigmas there, there's embarrassment there, there's, the shame of being judged or the fear of being judged and criticized and there are those who have never experienced infertility personally, that really don't understand what we who are experiencing on a daily basis actually go through. So yes, I would love to be able to share and bring the light from my perspective and personal experiences with the topic.

Kandidly Kristin: Yes. And because I am not among the thousands upon thousands of women, couples, and men that deal with infertility, I thought it really important to not only have someone who had expertise in this subject but someone who had lived experience with it. So, I am a researcher, I love data. So, I found a few stats and I wanted to start with those and then we'll get into this conversation.

So in the US, among heterosexual women aged 15 to 49 years old, with no prior births, about one in five or 19% are unable to get pregnant after one year of trying. Additionally, about one in four 26% of the women in this group have difficulty getting pregnant or carrying a pregnancy to term. So, Frances, if you would briefly share your story of infertility with me and my listeners.

Frances Jones: Okay, thank you. Well, this has been over a 20-year journey for me. I came from a very fertile family. My mom conceived 10 times. She had another sister that conceived 10 times, and another one that's conceived seven. All of my sisters have children, and all of my adult nieces, with the exception of one who will be trying relatively soon were able to conceive, but I was the only one who turned out to be the word barren. And that was a very difficult thing for me because I always wanted to have a big family. I always wanted to take that which my parents instilled into me and instill it into the children that the Lord I had hoped would allow me to have. But that didn't happen that way.

Um, and because of my inability to conceive, I self-inflicted myself with a lot of heartache and negativity because I looked at myself as damaged goods, and I thought I was less than a woman. That I really wasn't a real woman, right? Because I connected being a woman with being able to conceive

Kandidly Kristin: mm-hmm.

Frances Jones: And so, because of all that heartache, I hid my true emotions under a mask. I didn't really even share, the depth of the emotions that I was going through and the stigmas that I was dealing with. My husband didn't even know the depth of it, but I was able to come to a place where I found peace with infertility, and that's why I'm sharing my story so openly now.

Kandidly Kristin: Nice. So, can we talk a little bit about the causes of infertility? I know that they're probably various and numerous, but just some of the causes of infertility, and why it is that couples are unable to conceive.

Frances Jones: Well, I would like to level set and put the disclaimer that I am not a medical professional. I'm speaking from my own personal experiences and knowledge that I have gained through this over 20-year journey, but it really differs with an individual. I would first like to speak for myself. I was diagnosed with stage four endometriosis, low egg reserve and low egg count. I was not able to conceive because my body just was overrun with adhesions and lesions and a lot of scarring there.

Kandidly Kristin: Mm-hmm

Frances Jones: So, because of the age that I was when I found out about the endometriosis, it lessened my ability, my chances of conceiving. So what caused that? honestly, I really don't know what caused it medically, so to speak, because. As I said, I came from a fertile family, so no one else in my family dealt with the endometriosis. But what I do believe is because when I was dealing with the heavy cycles and the tremendous pain, I didn't speak up and I didn't speak out. Okay. I thought that was normal. I didn't realize that my crawling from one room to another literally was a sign, a red flag that there was something that was going on in my body.

And because that was such a private topic, it wasn't really discussed openly in my family. So, I didn't share with anybody. So, I can speak for myself. What I believe is that there were things going on in my body I did not understand. I did not take, proactive steps to find out what those things were and so I believe that maybe others are dealing with that.

We take a lot of things for granted. What's goes on in our bodies, and some of us, we have heavy cycles, but we think it's normal. Some of us are dealing with things that just pop up. Some people deal with infertility because there's been a cancer diagnosis or some other health thing that caused damage in the body and the person wasn't able to conceive.

Some of us are dealing with just, um, waiting too late to try to conceive. We put our careers first and there's nothing wrong with that but we don't forethink that Wow later on in my life, after I get established in my career, there may be things that could cause me or inhibit my ability to have children. And so, it's just being aware of what really goes on in the body and what could potentially impact the ability to have children and start doing homework and research and even talking to doctors earlier on if that's something that a person desires to do.

Kandidly Kristin: Right. I agree with all of that. When you were telling your story earlier, you mentioned the range of emotions. So, I wanted to talk a little bit about the impact of infertility on mental health of the woman. We're going to talk a little bit about men in a minute, but right now I'm talking about the woman who is trying to conceive and just can't, some of the mental health issues that can arise from that struggle.

Frances Jones: Yeah. I first will start with myself because of course, that's what I know the best. When I was 19 years old, I had a friend, an acquaintance that, you know, came from a large family as well, and she asked me did I want to have children. We're just having a conversation. I said, sure. And she asked me how many I wanted and I told her I wanted to have five children. And she was so florid. She asked me, wow, you really want to have five kids? And I'm like, yeah, I do and then she said to me something that changed my life. She said, you are a real woman. Now I beamed with pride because I know I came from a long line of women who were able to bring forth a lot of children, and I knew they were real women. And so, I said, okay, cool. This is where I want to go. But when I got to the point where I was having trouble having a child, those memories began to hunt me that, wow, you're not a real woman because you can't even have five children. Let alone even thinking about having, you can't even have one.

Kandidly Kristin: Right.

Frances Jones: Then, I'm looking at the fact that when I was about to marry my husband, his father pulled me aside and gave me a father daughter- in-law soon to be talk. He told me how much his son loved children. and he was like, you know what I'm trying to tell you. Right? And so now here it is, my husband wants to have a lot of kids. I can't have them. I'm thinking I'm not a real woman. I'm thinking I'm damaged goods. And so, with all those negative emotions going on, I didn't get into a state of depression, but I got into a state of low self-esteem.

 I lost myself and I devalued myself because I felt like I was the odd one out and that I had done something to cause what was going on in my life. And so that weighed heavily on me and not being able to talk about it because I didn't think anybody would really understand unless you actually physically go through it. It's hard to understand, so there's a lot of negativities, there's anger and there's heartache, and there's distraught and so many things. There are women who won't even go to baby showers because they don't want to be reminded of what they don't have. So, it's a hard battle to deal with.

Kandidly Kristin: I'm sure.

You mentioned your husband, so that's a great segue into the male side of the infertility conversation, you know, men are really all too often left out of these conversations completely, but male factors cause, infertility probably a half of the time. And so, I just wanted to talk a little bit about the lack of attentiveness, the lack of bringing men into the conversation and men's specific support needs when it comes to infertility. Whether the infertility is a male factor or just their wife can't conceive and they're unable to have a family.

Frances Jones: Yeah. You know, it's almost like a double edge sword, right? So, you got the male that wants desperately to give their wife a child but for whatever reason, cannot and you think about the challenge of that man's virility, masculinity and the shame and heartache that that man potentially could be carrying on his shoulder because he could have great concerns that his wife may want to divorce him because he's not able to give her the child she's so desperately wants. There are several couples that actually get divorced because of these types of things. But then on the flip side, you have the woman who desperately wants to have a child, but the man just doesn’t get it.

Kandidly Kristin: Mm-hmm

Frances Jones: You know, they want the child as well, but it's not their bodies that's going through the treatments. If there's invitro fertilization that's going on, it's not the male's eggs that of course, because they don't have them. Right, but it's not the male's body that's being challenged to get the eggs out and all of these different things. Some men may not have a desire to or the ability to be with the wife while she's going through the treatments and going to the doctors and so that woman could very well feel left out and alone because her spouse is not present like she needs him to be.

Kandidly Kristin: Right.

Frances Jones: More importantly, if she's not really communicating what she needs, he doesn't know how to be there for her and it may be a point where she's communicating, but he just doesn’t understand it because he's just not getting it.

With my husband, he is a true champion for me. He supported me and he was there, but the thing about it is he had a biological daughter. So, in my mind, he never really understood what it feels like to desire to conceive a child and not be able to. He was supportive but he just didn't get it

Kandidly Kristin: Right.

Frances Jones: He loved me, but he just didn't understand. So, it's just being able to be open and have those hard conversations in love. I must say that in love, have those hard conversations and those truthful conversations so each individual who's involved can actually understand what the other person is feeling and experiencing.

Kandidly Kristin: Yes. Communication, communication, communication! Honest communication about how you're feeling about it, because I think sometimes there's anger if there's a guy who really wants kids and the wife is just not able and he's mad at himself because he's mad at her and doesn't know how to express it. Just such a, a huge range of emotions and feelings on both sides.

So, you, you mentioned IVF, invitro fertilization and the only things I know about IVF are, and these might not even be true. It's expensive and it's painful for the person that has to do the shots and all the things. So, can you talk, I don't know if you tried IVF and what your experience was with it, and if you didn't, what is your opinion, thoughts on invitro fertilization or IVF?

Frances Jones: Okay, so no, I was not able to try invitro, my husband and I, we had hoped that we would, but because of finances, that was not an option for us. But, I have coached women and, had support groups with women who have gone through invitro and from what I hear, yes! It's a painful experience.

Now, I don't know, is it the egg retrieval part that's more painful than anything? I would probably guess that that would be it. When I was going through my fertility treatments, I did artificial insemination, IUI, intrauterine insemination. But that was not painful in that sense. I mean, I had to inject myself with different medicines and different things like that. It was nerve-wracking because you weren’t sure if you were doing it right and all of the things that went around that, but invitro is expensive. I've been told that it's not the most comfortable feeling. But the thing about it is, when you want something so desperately, you will put yourself in a place of uncomfortableness in order to get it. I say that even though I didn't do invitro but I was, trying to be healed of stage four endometriosis and what happened with me is that I had to go on Lupron for several months.

 Lupron basically was putting me in menopause and so some of the side effects that I experienced was pain in my legs and walking up and down stairs. That was very painful for me, but I was willing to take that pain because I wanted that child that badly. So when a person wants something so badly, they will be willing to sacrifice their own levels of comfort in order to get it.

Kandidly Kristin: Yes, yes! Especially we as women, we will do that quickly. So, I want to talk a little bit because there is, there's so many myths about infertility and so much stigma. I wanted to do some myth busting. There were so many, but I just picked five.

So, first myth surrounding infertility is: it's always the woman's fault, but we know that's not true.

Frances Jones: That's definitely not true.

Kandidly Kristin: The second myth is using birth control can cause infertility. Have you ever heard that one?

Frances Jones: I have heard that, I've seen readings where they said that's not true. I cannot medically speak because I don't know how a person genetics are. So, there could be something that's with the birth control pill. If a person stays on it too long potentially could impact that. I cannot say that, and I'm not saying that that is the case, so I don't really know.

Kandidly Kristin: All right. So, the third one, and I thought this was funny, if a man can ejaculate, then he is not infertile. I don't know where people get this mess from.

Frances Jones: I don’t know where that came from because it has nothing to do with the ability to ejaculate. It is about the strength of the sperm and the fertility of it. More so, I don't think that's accurate, but I cannot say that we're 100% sure.

Kandidly Kristin: Right. And yes, we are not medical doctors.

Frances Jones: Mm-hmm and this is not advice.

Kandidly Kristin: This is not advice. Okay. Certain sex physicians improve your odds of getting pregnant. I used to hear that, I hear, and I thought, really? Huh?

Frances Jones: What I used to hear is certain positions um,

Kandidly Kristin: Keep you from getting pregnant.

Frances Jones: No. That would, uh, help you to determine the gender really, of a child. Yes, I have heard that.

Kandidly Kristin: Wow. And the last myth, which we know is absolutely false, its infertility is always fixable.

Frances Jones: Yeah, that's definitely false

Kandidly Kristin: So, that just goes to show the myths and the falsehoods that are out there surrounding this subject. People look at this list and might believe this, like I got this from IVF clinic and it had myth, they had like, oh God, there were so many. So, I just picked like five and I thought, wow. People walking into the office to get help for infertility may be coming in with these five or another five or 10 things floating around in their head that they've heard that's just not true. So, I just wanted to get that out there. But again, not medical doctors and everybody's situation is different. Everybody individually is different, their genetics are different, their environment is different.

I wanted you to please give me and my listeners the dos and don'ts when you are in a conversation with someone that's trying to conceive, struggling to conceive, because there are some insensitive things that people can say in an effort to relate, engage, or just even be supportive that just don't help.

Frances Jones: Yeah. One of the biggest ones is that just relax, it will happen. Well, that's almost like saying, oh wow, just wait for the rain one day it'll come. So, you know, it's difficult telling someone who's going through that type of a challenge to just relax. I know a lot of times we have good intentions.

Kandidly Kristin: Yes.

Frances Jones: We have to consider the receiver of that message and so if a person is already at a high level of stress because they just had a treatment cycle that was not productive, I'll use that word. Hearing hey, just chill out, it's not going to help the person. What I would say instead of that, ask the individual if they're willing to talk; how can I be there for you? How do you want the conversation to go? Are you even wanting to talk about this? Because the thing about it is that we naturally want to come in, especially women, we naturally want to come in and just comfort and hold and make it feel better, but we can't always do that. So, gauging the individual, like for me, I didn't really share.

Kandidly Kristin: Right?

Frances Jones: Sure. My family knew I was having challenges having children, but they didn't know I was seeking the type of treatment that I was seeking. Some didn't know I was seeking treatment at all and so just looking at the fact that you may not even know a person is going through infertility, but if you have known that person, if you're a good friend, as an example, and you knew that person always talked about having children, but they don't have them, please don't go and ask them, when are you going to have kids?

Kandidly Kristin: Oh yeah.

Frances Jones: Please don't ask them do you want kids? Please don't ask them. Why don't you have kids? and please don't say, Hey, well there are a lot of children out there in the world that needs a family, why don't you just go and adopt? Now the reason I'm saying that is because there are women who find that to be very insensitive because they feel like. , their true feelings are being overlooked, their people are not concerned about how that individual really feels. Yes, my husband and I adopted and we were grateful to adopt.

No one ever suggested adoption to me until my husband said, after he finally saw , I went to him and told him, I believe it's time to give this up. Then he said, I believe the Lord will have us to adopt and that's when I considered that, because had never considered it. But to cast it aside, like adoption is a quick band aid, a quick fix and then all we want is a child in the house, doesn't matter where that child comes from, we just want kids in the house, that's not necessarily the case. The reason that I say that is my husband and I adopted two brothers and they were both under the age of five and I had a stepdaughter that we, my husband and I raised together full time. But nine years later, after that adoption was final, I woke up crying. asking God, why was I never able to have children? So, if just having kids in the house was, what was the fix? It didn't fix me.

So, I just want people to understand that, it's more than just having kids in the house. It's about being denied at least for me, it was about being denied the ability to carry forth life. That's something that unless you really have experienced that denial, you may never understand what that feels like. So, we want to be aware of the things that we say and be conscious that our words could be hurting someone that we say we love.

 So have compassion and sensitivity in those conversations and like I said, ask the individual, how can I be there for you? If they don't want to talk about it, don't force the conversation and try to be a person who really is championing them where they are right then because they could be having a bad day and having that conversation just wasn't the right day. It could be the right message, but not the right time. So, we have to consider several factors.

Kandidly Kristin: Yes. Thank you so much for that. So, I wanted to talk a little bit about your book, Overcoming the Emotional Stigmas of Infertility. Barren, but not ashamed; did you write the book to a particular audience? Was it simply your form of healing? When did the book come about? Those kinds of things.

Frances Jones: Okay. So, I actually had no intention of sharing my infertility story, none whatsoever. I'm a very private person and I had actually started writing a fictional love story, and one day I'll finish that story.

After I went through the challenges and the negative emotions and the stigmas surrounding my personal infertility journey and I was able to come out of that and found peace and happiness in the face of infertility; I realized there were others who were yet stuck, that were still going through what I had gone through and I decided to share my story because if I could just help one person, it's worth opening up the curtains of my life. I began sharing that story and writing that book simply because I wanted to have a healing agent to help someone else to get past the issues and concerns and heartache and stigmas that's connected with infertility.

It was simply to just help somebody else because I knew what I had experienced and if anybody had gone through what I had gone through, and like I said, if they could find peace and comfort in knowing that how, while somebody gets it; hey, that's my story in her story. Then it was worth it and so that's why I wrote the book. I tell it all honestly. I tell the different segments of my life and why, I felt the way I felt and what caused me to hurt the way I hurt and why I inflicted my own heartache. I tell it all because I feel like if I can't be real about my story, then I'm not really trying to help anybody. Like I said, I cast all of my reservations aside in order to help somebody.

Kandidly Kristin: Awesome! and I'm sure it did. To whoever's listening, the link for her book will be in the show notes.

So, let's pivot a little bit and I want you to talk to me about Heart Desires Fulfillment, LLC, what you do, the why of it. Just gimme the rundown about what you do with Heart Desires. I love that name by the way.

Frances Jones: Okay. Thank you. Heart Desires Fulfillment Coaching LLC that basically was birth from my inability to have children, and that was one of my heart's desires. I know that there are many individuals and maybe some of you listening right now fall in this category, that there are things in your heart that you truly want and you want to fulfill, but for whatever reason, you are not going after those things. Maybe it's a lack of confidence. It's not just about infertility, it's about any heart desires because I was reading the scripture one day and I read how God said he would give us our heart desires. So, I realized in order to have your heart desires, they have to be fulfilled. Many of us are believing for things, but those things are not actually being fulfilled in their lives and that's why I created that company. That's where the name came from.

There are two sides of my coaching practice but they all fall under one umbrella and it's transformational coaching because before we can actually receive the wonderful things that we desire, we have to identify what's blocking us from doing it. So, being able to identify the blocks, maybe it's a fear of failure, maybe somebody doesn't believe in us and because they don't believe in us, we don't believe in ourselves, maybe because we are trying to do what our parents want us to do and we're not really going after our hearts desires.

See, for me, even before infertility stepped into my life, there was a void in my life. I felt that I was supposed to help people on a very personal level, but I didn't know how and I didn't know what that would look like and so I walked around for years having a great career, but having a void in my life. So, I started that company to be able to help those who are yet stuck in their lives, regardless of what that stuck looked like, to be able to move forward, to go after the wonderful things that they so deserve.

For those of you listening, you deserve to have a great life. You deserve to have your heart desires fulfilled, not just have them in your heart, but actually have them fulfilled. You are important and your desires are important, and so that's what Heart Desires Fulfillment Coaching is about. Infertility is one-part, transformational coaching is the other, but it all falls in the same umbrella, helping you to unlock your heart desires, one step at a time.

Kandidly Kristin: I love it, I love it!

 I usually ask for last thoughts from my guests for the listeners, but that was it. So, you did say that so perfectly. There's no follow up for that except for you to let my listeners know how they can connect with you and Heart Desires Fulfillment Coaching.

Frances Jones: Okay, awesome. So, in order to connect with me, you can go to my website which is www.heartdesirescoaching.com. There's a form that you can fill out and connect with me and follow me. I'm on Facebook and Instagram and my handle is @heartdesirescoaching I'm on Twitter, which is @heartdesiresfc. I'm on TikTok, which is @author.francesjones. I'm on LinkedIn, @francesjones1 and if you are interested in getting the book; Overcoming the Emotional Stigmas of Infertility: barren but not ashamed, I'm all over the internet. You can get it on basically every online retail, but you can also get it @amazon.com and I would just love to be able to talk with you and help you to figure out if you want your heart desires fulfilled, how you can get that done.

Kandidly Kristin: Awesome, awesome, awesome!

Guys, if you didn't have a pen and paper or she was going too fast, all of Frances and Heart Desires Fulfillment Coaching info will be in the show notes with clickable links so you don't have to hunt around for it. You can just click right in the show notes and get popped over.

Frances Jones, I just want to thank you, number one for giving me your time today to sit down and talk about what is not an easy topic no matter who you are, the person that is having trouble conceiving or somebody like me to talk about. So, I thank you for that. I want to thank you for the book that I'm sure has helped and will help a bunch of people and for sharing your story with me and my listeners.

So, thank you. Thank you, thank you, and thank you again.

Frances Jones: Oh, you're most welcome. And I just want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to share with you and your audience. If I can help just one person, it's all worthwhile and all of us, we're dealing with a challenge and so there's hope and there's light at the end of your challenge.

Just keep moving forward, keep believing, and just know that nothing too great is impossible for you. It may not come the way that you're looking for it, but if you just keep believing, you will find that peace and life and love and hope that you're looking for.

Kandidly Kristin: Yes, absolutely, I agree. This is why I do what I do. I podcast with a purpose and my purpose is to put people like you in front of my listeners so that people can get the help, the support that they need, the information, whatever it is; that's my job, that's what I do.

Frances Jones: Awesome!

Kandidly Kristin: So, thank you again Frances. Guys, her contact info again will be in the show notes.

 We are on hiatus right now, so this is being recorded during hiatus time to be put out in season three, which will launch in February on the anniversary of the podcast. In the meantime, go visit the website www.thekandidshop.com. Check out some past episodes, subscribe, leave me a review, drop me some topic suggestions, leave me a voicemail and share the show with your friends and family. Make sure you're following me on Facebook and IG. I'm everywhere @thekandidshoppodcast and until next time, I want you all to keep it safe, keep it healthy, and keep it Kandid.