FAN FAV! Surviving & Thriving After A Narcissistic Relationship: Denise’s Story

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Hola, Podcast Nation. It's your girl, Candidly Kristen, and this is The Candid Shop. Tonight, I am super-duper excited to be having a candid chit-chat with transformational love coach, speaker, international best-selling author, and founder of Life After Narcissism CSW Coaching, Ms. Denise Kavaliauskus Denise was a special guest on the Life After a Narcissistic Relationship episode and she is also a survivor and thriver of narcissistic abuse. Denise's mission statement is to enhance the lives of survivors of abuse. She has a clear vision for seeing the spots that exist in every stuck situation and the creativity to transform it. So welcome, welcome, welcome Denise to the Candid Shop. Well, welcome back to the Candid Shop.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Yes. Thank you so much, Kristen, for having me. As an individual, I am so excited to share this message with your audience.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: I'm excited for them to hear it directly from you. So before we get into anything, let me ask you how you've been since you were last on the show with me.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Fantastic.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Good. That's always good to hear. Well, Tell me briefly or tell my listeners rather about your 22 year toxic relationship. And when you had that aha moment that enough was enough.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Well, there were moments before I had the big moment of this isn't working. And I remember approaching my thirties, actually turning 30. And really like everybody was like, 30 is like so big and this and that, you know, I was 29. So 30 to me was big. And I remember thinking this sucks. Like this isn't, this isn't like what I thought it would be or what I dreamed love would be, a relationship would be. We had two children by then. And there was just constant like bickering and arguing and, and mind games and, head trips and all of that. So the big moment was in 2008. By that time I was 38, eight years later. And my then husband, I told him that day that I wanted a divorce. And I had said that before, but for some reason this day, it, it, I don't know, it sunk in. He, I don't know. And that was the day that he attempted to take his life with our 14 year old daughter in the next room. And that was the biggest trauma that I had ever been in. And of course, when you're a parent and your children go through something like that, you've not only been through a trauma, but you've, you've been triple traumatized because your children have been traumatized and you know, you feel for them because our job as parents is to love and protect them. And when that's out of control, like, so. That was the big moment that I was like, this is crazy town and I can't. Yeah. And, but Kristen, I didn't leave until two and a half years after that.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Well, do you think that was because you felt guilty that you caused him to do that? Or what was the thought process for staying another two years?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Uh, yes. Guilt, but not necessarily for him or for my children. Got it. Because that day when that happened, you know, our daughter was in the next room. So she was the one who called 911. It was very traumatic. My son and I had left. When we came back, we we walked into this. And so when they took him away to the hospital, and they had separated all three of us, and they were like, asking us questions. And I was, you know, I remember my emotion back then was so pissed off. I was so pissed off. I couldn't believe that he would do something like this. It was just so over the top, so extreme. And I remember thinking I was so pissed off that I didn't even want to go to the hospital. Like I still wanted a divorce. I didn't change my mind. Yeah. If anything, he solidified it by doing what he was doing. But my kids, my kids were 14 and 13 and they were crushed to see their dad like that, to see me like respond that way. And so that day after the police, you know, went away and I cleaned up everything. And then it was like, okay, uh, let's go to the hospital, mom, mom, let's go to the hospital and see dad. And at that point, I didn't know if he was even dead or alive. Honestly, I didn't know. So it was the, it was guilt that I felt for my children. Cause I honestly didn't want to go to the hospital. I really didn't. I was exhausted. I was tired. I was like, you know what I mean? Because you, he made that choice. But I went, of course, because my children wanted to see their dad. And we waited in the waiting room for hours. I remember my sister was with us, and I remember a male nurse came out, and he felt so bad to tell us this. He was like, I'm so sorry, but he doesn't want to see you guys. And we were like, what? Like, what? He's like, I asked him.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Well, you got a lot of nerve.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Right? Right? I said, what? Like I was kind of like, what the hell? And he was like, yeah, I'm sorry. I asked him, but he, he said, no, he didn't want to see you guys. And I was like, okay, well, all right, let's go guys. Let's, let's go grab some pizza. Like by this time it was late at night. It had been such an exhausting day. Let's go grab some pizza. Let's go home. We get some pizza. I pull into the driveway, my phone rings and it's the hospital. I could tell it's a hospital number. And I answer it and it's him. And he's in this very, very, very low voice. And he's like, where are you? And I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm home. He's like, why aren't you here? I'm like, what are you talking about? You said you didn't wanna see us. This is the mind fuckery that I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah. This was a constant. Whether it was through a traumatization event like this, or whether it was just normal mind fuckery, it was just this type of stuff all the time. And this is what narcissistic people do, right? They always keep you in their control by keeping you confused, right? Gaslighting you, manipulating you, controlling you. So I said, you said you didn't want to see us. What? I would never say that. What are you talking about? And it could have been. that he was drugged up because not only was he taking a cocktail of his own self-medicating pills, but then in the hospital, you know, if they did surgery on him, they, they sedated him and stuff like that. So it could have been that, but like I said, this was normal behavior from him. Exactly. So that was so that when I was 30, it was like, it was that it was that day. And then, like I said, two and a half years later after that is when I did leave.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: OK. So let me just take you back. I guess 22 years with somebody, I'm sure there was a time before that defining traumatic moment when you decided to leave. But were there points along the way where you thought something's wrong with him? Or this is not the way a real relationship is supposed to function? Did those thoughts go through your mind and did you ever say anything to him about the treatment and the gaslighting and whatnot?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Well, not necessarily that. I did say to him, this is, you know, this is messed up. Like this is not normal, but I didn't, because I didn't know. that I was in an abusive relationship. I didn't know he was narcissistic. I didn't know what gaslighting was. I didn't know what love bombing was. I didn't know what any of that was. But when you just asked me that, Kristen, it reminded me of I had just finished medical assisting school and I was working in a doctor's office. And for some reason he was doing something because it made me go to the doctor. It was like my externship, they call it. I had such great doctors that I was working for. they were from Trinidad and I went to the doctor and I was like, can you help my husband? So this was the pattern. He would exhibit screwed up behavior and I would go in and try to save him. So I remember thinking, I think he has a chemical imbalance in his brain. Cause that's how like ludicrous his behavior was. And I think even the doctor had mentioned to me, there could be a chemical imbalance. And I mean, he took plenty of chemicals to make it imbalanced. So yeah. And that was like 19, that was like 98. So yeah, I was not even 30. I don't think.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Was he ever diagnosed with a mental disorder, like bipolar or schizophrenia or any of those things?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: That I don't know because when he attempted the suicide and after the hospital part, they put him in the psych ward. When they put him in the psych ward, he forbid me to have any access to his medical records because he was mad at me because I wouldn't bring him his pills.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Got it.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: That he was self-medicating with. And I wouldn't bring our children to see him in the psych ward. So there's the control thing. Like, you don't do what I say. I'm going to be mad at you. I'm going to give you the silent treatment. And I'm going to punish you for not doing what I said. Well, at that point I was like, well, screw you. I'm not bringing my kids to a psych ward.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Like I'm just not. And I'm not bringing pills because

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: He was on suicide watch. And when you went into the psych ward, you had to put everything in like a locker. And they pretty much like patted me down. So I wasn't going to get in trouble because he was addicted.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Right, right.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Yeah.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah. So two years later you decide, all right, this is it. We're out of here. I'm sure it took some planning, some careful planning, but when you made the break, was that it?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Nope. Nope. Nope. So yes, there was planning. There was, there was five, I think it was five and a half or five months of planning. So in December of 2010. my daughter came to me and said, I don't want to go to college. This is how it began. I don't want to go to college in Florida where we lived. And I was like, okay, it was kind of random to me, but I was like, okay, where do you want to go to college? And she said, I want to go to college in North Carolina. And I was like, okay, well, this is a train wreck over here. So let's, let's go. I was totally open to like, let's just pack up and go. And she was graduating that following may. So that was my plan from December to may. because I ran his business. So any money that I could get my hands on was funneled through him, whether it was his business account or I wrote out checks to him and I from his business. So I had to get really creative and how I was going to have money to leave because moving three states away costs money. Yes, it does. So I manifested $10,000 without a job, without him knowing. And that was the amount of money that I thought was a good start to like get an apartment and get some, the bills paid for a couple months that I could find a job. So yeah, there was a five month planning stage from finding a place to live, looking for, or at least feeling out jobs and, and you know, the whole process of getting us there and all of that.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Right.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Yeah.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Did your daughter ever tell you why North Carolina?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Well, we, my best friend's family lives up here.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Okay. Okay.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: So we knew, at least we knew some people here and she grew up with them and you know how you have like really close friends and your kids grow up and they call them auntie and cousins and yeah.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Okay. All right. I love North Carolina.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Yeah, we get a lot of New Jerseyers people here.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: I go to OBX every chance I get. I love it. Really? To the Outer Banks.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Yes, indeed. We have a place in Sneeds Ferry off of… Oh my God.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: I stayed in Sneeds Ferry. I was down there for… Did you? My son's best friend, who's a girl, was getting married and he was in the wedding and we all went down. We rented this Little house right on the water.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Oh, it was nice. It's beautiful.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: So beautiful. So enough about me. Sorry. I take over the chat. So fast forward, you said it wasn't the final, uh, goodbye.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Right, right, right. So that was 2011. We came here. I actually did a TikTok video today on three ways a narcissist Hoover. So we came here and it wasn't even three months later when the Hoovering started again. Kristen, I didn't know any of this shit. I didn't know what Hoovering was and gaslighting and all of that. What it looked like was he contacted our daughter first and was like, if you and mom come back, this will never happen again. And we'll have this amazing life. And he painted this beautiful. picture of what it will be like if we come back. That was the answer. And so she came to me and was like, mom, dad loves you so much. And he wants us back together and we're a family and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So because I was on my own financially for the first time in over 20 years, and even though I was doing well, I still was scared. Right. Cause it was really new. Him and I were in contact and we were going to quote unquote, start over again. And basically what that looked like was I packed up everything here in North Carolina, found a loophole in my lease and went back to Florida. And that was the end of 2011. And everybody knows how that story ends when it's let's get back together. Five minutes into it, I realized what did I do? What did I do?

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Like this was not the move.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Holy crap. Yeah. So fast forward to 2012, there was another incident, not as traumatizing. It wasn't another suicide attempt, but it was, he found out that I was leaving again. And he decided that the answer to me leaving was for him to get off of the cocktail of pills that he was taking. So he went cold Turkey. off of everything he was taking. And I honestly can't even tell you what exactly he was taking. I have an idea, but I don't know for sure. I do know that you cannot do that. And so what happened was, is he went into hallucinations for the next five days, five nights. And so I left again after that, is basically what I'm getting at. So that was 2012. So now we're into 2012. And then I never, went back. So 2022 actually marks 10 years of me being no contact and abuse-free.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Nice. Nice. Now, what about your kids? Do they have a relationship with their dad?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Well, yes and no.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Okay.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: I mean, they do, but it's not a healthy one.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Right, right.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Yeah.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Got it.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Codependent and toxic.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah. And they're getting older and they've, I'm sure that they, they are coming to their own conclusions. You know what I mean? Cause kids grow up and they, they see you for who you are and not for who you say you are.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Exactly.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: So you wrote your bestselling book, empower the woman within stepping into total freedom in 2018. Was that part of your healing journey or did that come after? you had done your healing.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Okay. During it was during, so actually the international bestseller was a chapter that I was a part of in a book called a new day. Dawn's breaking up with abuse. So I was a, I was a co author in that book, which took me to international bestseller, but the one that you're referring to empower the woman within was, is my book. And I told my story in that book and yes, And even in the book, if people read it, they'll read, like I said, I know what I'm about to write right now. My hands are shaking. I can feel my anxiety. Because it was, yes, it's very therapeutic because you're releasing it out of your body by writing it.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Right.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Instead of just thinking about it or avoid thinking about it, you're actually releasing it out of your body. So yes, 2018, I was still in my healing journey. I consider my healing journey ongoing. I never tell people that I'm fully healed. I'm way far along, but I think I'll always be healing.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah, or you should be. Yeah. So when did the Life After Narcissism CSW coaching come about? What led you down that path?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: So my journey is, escaping that relationship, moving here to North Carolina, having hysterical dating stories. I should write a book on the dating stories. And then my healing journey was, I don't know, accidental, which there's no such thing. But what I mean by that is that I didn't go into like, Oh, I was in an abusive relationship. Let me heal from that. It was, Oh, I want freedom. I want to start my own business because like I said, I ran his business in Florida and I had a taste of that freedom of not having a J O B or boss or anything like that. So when I came here, I had to have a job and I went and did what I did, which was medical sales. But then I was like, I really want to like have the laptop life. I want to like sit poolside and like coach people or whatever. Make money is my idea then. So that led me to a business coach had shown up on my feed and she's saying, she's very attractive and she was saying, I can teach you how to create an online business in seven days. Just put your name and your email address here. And so Kristen, for your audience, my hair is blonde and it's that way for a reason because I fell for it. And I was like, okay, free. So long story short, I went into her one, one year program and she showed us how to create an online audience. And so from that led me into, Oh, a coach. I can be a coach. I can coach people. I can coach women. So that evolved into teaching women how to heal from narcissistic abuse. And for a long time, it was just healing from narcissistic abuse. Cause I was in my healing journey and that's what I could provide to them. Then I fell in love and got married and in a healthy relationship in my forties.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Nice.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: after 22 year toxic relationship. So then it was so funny because I remember I was in bed and I had my laptop and I said to my, he wasn't my husband then, but my husband now he had poked his head into the bedroom and I was like, babe, do you mind if I, this was December, 2017. I remember this so well because of the next thing that happened. I said, do you mind if I start pulling you into my business and like, start talking about like, true love after toxic love and our relationship. And he was like, Yeah, of course, I don't mind. Well, that December 31, he proposed to me on a St. Petersburg, Florida beach.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: So that's how it's all evolved. So not only do I, I coach women end men how to heal from the narcissistic abuse that they've had in their relationships, but also how they can have a healthy, thriving relationship, even if they've only experienced toxic relationships in the past. Got it.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: I love it. Yeah.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: That's where the life after narcissism comes from.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Got it. I love that. I love the site. And is that your husband on the site and the pictures with him? I'm guessing it is because you're all hugged up. Awesome. So on the site, something caught my eye. There's a little blurb on there that says, this is not your average heal from toxic love coaching site. And I thought, Hmm, I wonder what she means by that. And then you said you have a key in all caps. ingredient. Now, without like giving away client stuff and closely held secrets, what's the key?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: I'll give you the, yeah, I'll give you the broad spectrum of that. And that is to love yourself a hundred percent, the good, the bad, and the ugly, the whole kit and caboodle, not just the parts of you that you are willing to share on social media, or you're willing to share in a conversation, but love even the shit shows that you've had in the past, or the crappy past, or the things that you think that you did wrong, or that people did wrong to you. When you love all of it, that's when you have 100% pure self-love. And that's the foundation that you build off of in the healing journey. I always start with self-love, to love yourself completely. And then you build off of that, so then you build from that forgiveness and truth and trust, and you just keep building off of that. So I always share this with everybody. So the first three, self-love, truth, and forgiveness, those are not mine. I can't claim those. And I always give credit to where it came from. And where it came from was a book called The Mastery of Love. And in The Mastery of Love, he talks about these three keys to healing. And he says that, They were tested by our great masters, Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, and other masters like that. They tested them with people all over the world. And he describes like from Mexico to Egypt and all over the world. If you do these three keys, you heal the mind, the wounded mind, the wounded body. So those credit to them. I use them. And then I added trust. Because trust is the biggest challenge that women share with me that they obviously struggle with coming out of toxic relationships and wanting to go into a relationship, but they don't trust themselves. They think, I don't trust myself in choosing a good partner, and they don't trust the person that they're sitting across from the table because they've been burnt so many times in the past. That's why I added trust and I teach women how to trust after what they've been through.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Awesome. I love it. Just so that my listeners can understand what we're talking about. Can you give some tips and red flags and things for dating people, women and men to look for to avoid ending up in a toxic relationship or even a toxic friendship? Like what are some of the things that should make you maybe take a step back and say, Hmm, Maybe I need to pump the brakes a little bit or step away, sever ties, whatever it is.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Yeah, that's a great question. The first thing that I always share with people is trust your gut. Just like you said, when you take a step back and you go, hmm, that right there is an indicator that this person that you're exchanging energy with is toxic. But here's the thing. We make excuses for people. We ignore these red flags. We ignore our own intuition and our own gut feelings because if somebody looks good on paper, like I say, like, like a resume, right? So for, for dating purposes. So when a woman goes on a date and he looks like good on paper, meaning he's successful and he's. handsome and you know, all the check marks, but then you're having a conversation with him. And just like what you said, you go, Hmm, something's not aligning here. Something's not, I don't know what it is. And so what we do is we ignore that because, Oh, maybe it's me or I had a bad day or something.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Right. It's not him.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Right. Exactly. That is exactly what we do. Exactly. And the truth is that your body never lies to you. And your intuition is God. That's God speaking to you. That's God nudging you and telling you. Right. And we, when we ignore this, because it doesn't make sense. Oh, but he's so this, and he's so that, and it just, it doesn't make sense. And when we ignore that and later on down the line, we go, oh, that's why. That's why. Yeah.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Now, do you think that self-worth and self-esteem issues play a part in why some women and men are so willing to ignore the red flag?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Absolutely. So I'll use myself as an example. When, when I got together with my then husband, I was a wounded person. I had childhood wounds that had not been given attention. Didn't even know I was wounded. Right. Because growing up in my home, there was no, well, there wasn't the very little physical abuse. Right. So. Yeah, there was yelling and screaming. But as a child, when you grow up, you think that's normal, right? People fight, they argue, they disagree. And then when you grow up, and you have these unhealed wounds, and by the way, there's not one of us on this planet that hasn't had some type of abuse growing up some level of abuse, right? So we grow up when we get into these relationships, and like energy attracts like energy. This is scientific. So one wounded person is going to attract another wounded person. Now, what most commonly happens is a person like me and my clients are very empathic, i.e. they're still wounded, but they attract narcissistic people who are, you could look at it more wounded than the empathic person. Right? And the empath wants to save and rescue that person. And empathic people see the good. They refuse to see the bad. They see the good in that person. Right? I know he has a kind heart. I know he's a good person.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: He's got potential.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Yes, exactly. Don't fall in love with potential ladies.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Do not.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: It never works out. Yeah, that's exactly it. And the narcissist, so if you look at the two energies between the two people, one is a giver, one is a taker. So even though it looks like opposites, they actually go together because two takers wouldn't come together because who would give. And two givers wouldn't come together because who would take. So the giver and the taker is actually a match. but it's not a balance, right? In a healthy relationship, there's giving and taking, but it's a balance on each side.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Right.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Where in this relationship, it's the giver's always giving. She's giving, or he, it could be a he, giving everything, giving her time, giving her everything, just giving, giving, giving, never receiving. And the taker's always take, take, take, take, take, take, taking.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: And never giving. Right. Yep. all right so can you really quickly you use some terms that people may or may not be familiar with let's just assume they didn't listen to the first show which they should have but terms like love bombing gaslighting gaslighting is kind of to be a buzzword as is narcissism and narcissistic behaviors. Not so much narcissistic abuse though, but hoovering, gaslighting, love bombing, those terms. So that if people see it, they'll be able to put a name to it.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: So love bombing, the best way for me to describe it is it's too much too soon. It's too much too soon. I was watching this documentary on Showtime and it was called uh, love fraud. And it's about, it's a true story of this man who would meet these women online and he would quickly get into a relationship and marriage and let's create a business together or let's move. Like it's just too much too soon is the best way for me to describe it. Now, love bombing can continue on in the relationship. Like I heard somebody say the other day that her ex would love bomb her with vacations. There's just so much that these narcissists do. It's such a tangled web. The hoovering is what I was describing before, where they come back around. Just think of a helicopter hoovering over. They come back around and they apologize profusely or Hoovering is even like denying that there's a breakup.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: We're not broken up.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: She's just mad at me. We're not broken up. And then like I described in my story where they contact either you or they contact like my ex did to my daughter to get to me. And then just come back around and paint this beautiful, magical picture that if we get back together, everything's going to be perfect. That's the hoovering. And then the gaslighting is, what I describe gaslighting is like, it's the ultimate manipulation. And the term comes from the 1944 movie called Gaslighting. And it's a black and white film and it's a husband and a wife. And the wife is in this giant mansion house and the husband is flickering the lights. And he's like making her sick. Like he's trying to convince her that she's sick, which gaslighting is convincing somebody of a lie. It's basically gaslighting. So he's flickering the lights. She's saying, who's flickering the lights? And he's saying, what are you talking about? Nobody's flickering the lights. And when you doubt yourself, your own sanity, because you know, you saw the flickering lights, but somebody's like, you're crazy. You didn't see the flickering lights. And then you go, well, am I crazy? That's gaslighting.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Okay. Got it.

null: Yeah.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Huh. Yeah. See, take notes, people. Nah, it'll be in the show notes. So I'm in a toxic relationship. I come to you to your coaching website and I say, let me link up with her. I'm feeling her vibe and energy. I think she can help me through this. What would you say to me as a client? What would your advice be that process be? What would that coaching that person through and out of a toxic relationship and beyond look like?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: So when women reach out to me and they want to connect, You know, if they ask me a question or whatever, I respond and I ask them, I always ask. So the thing about what I've been through and how I understand what they're going through is I treat them with such kindness and respect. So I never insinuate or assume. I always ask, would you like support with this? If she says yes, then I say, okay, great. This is how we would start. And I send them a link. And it's basically an application link, which has their name and their email and phone number. And I tell them the process, fill this out. And I will email you with some time slots where we can get on a heal your heart session. And this is a complimentary call. Okay, and then on that session, I go through some questions to get to know who she is, where she's at in life, and what are her needs. And then I meet her where she's at. And then from there, I again, ask, would you like to hear about this offer? If she says yes, then I, then I offer her something. If she says no, I say, okay, great. It was nice talking to you and let's keep in touch. Here's some stuff, you know, my YouTube channel or whatever. And we go from there.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Got it. Got it. Okay. So your typical client looks like what? In terms of age, who, who do you typically work with?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: divorced women who have children like college age. She's highly successful in her business. She, she has all the things and she's killing in all of her areas of her life. It's just the relationship. She's like, can't figure out. She's like, what, why? Because she's a good person. She's smart. She's beautiful. She's intelligent, but she can't figure out this relationship thing. Why does she keep circling back into bad relationships? So she's in her forties to fifties, like I said, college age kids, highly successful. It's just this one piece in her life that she's just like, kind of dumbfounded. And, and there's some, you know, guilt and shame there too, because, because she's successful because she's all of these things and can't like get it together. And the relationship part that she doesn't want to, you know, talk about it or whatever. So she. this is the area that she needs help with.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Okay.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Is the relationships. So that, because she wants to be married, she wants to experience what true love is. She wants to have a partner. She doesn't want to be alone for the rest of her life.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Right.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: She wants to have a travel partner and all of those things. But like I was saying before, she doesn't trust herself that she'll pick a good partner. So there's this gap in between where she is and what she wants. And that's where I come in as I help her close that gap so that she can have all of it.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: And we can have all of it. Yes, we can. I want you to speak directly to a man or a woman that's going to hear this and is currently in a toxic relationship, knows that they are, wants to get out, but doesn't really know how, where to start, what to do.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: why I would say to her to get support, find somebody that you can trust, a mentor, a therapist, a coach, somebody that you feel comfortable with, that you can sit down and have a conversation with and be able to work through this. Also, if somebody comes to me and they just want, you know, they're feeling really shitty, and they need like a quick release, then I would give her some either breathing techniques or a releasing exercise, something to help her immediately to feel better and get her also in a calm state. And that could look, you know, depending on it, the situation, it could look like even a phone call with her. I'll make room during the day to get on a call with her. Or if it's messaging back and forth via email or whatever, I'll give her some type of exercise that she can do to help her release that out of her body so that she feels better. And now that the voicemail with the, on Facebook and all of that, so beautiful. I don't have to text a thousand words. Push the button and give her a voicemail that she could hear my voice. And I've walked women through like a breathing exercise or meditation just to get her. in a calm space so that she can get some relief and get her mind like out of that brain fog and out of that craziness that's just kind of spiraling down so that she can think clearly and make her next move. Yeah.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: And then have you ever had a client who needed your help to get out of a relationship? Oh yes. Okay.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: I've had several of those. Yeah.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Okay. And is that typically, is that typically something that you do something that's on a rare occasion or.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: I mean, I'll help any woman who wants help. I don't, I don't discriminate. She's still married and she needs help to get out safely and securely. I'll help her. If she's dating like the, like my ideal client that I described as she's or my avatar, if she's dating. and she keeps dating a version of her ex, I'll help her as well. Got it. Okay. Yeah.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: And is that, that help looks different, I'm sure.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Yes.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Somebody that, okay.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Okay. Yeah. Cause they're out of it.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. It's gotta be different for, you know, somebody that's, that's just dating. Like you're just dating. Leave him alone. Don't go out with him again. Right. Somebody that's married and maybe has children and all kinds of stuff, businesses, real estate, whatever, all tied together with this person. It can be a little more tricky. Yeah. And they're not typically violent, but they can be. So yes, there's always the concern about safety and those kinds of issues. So guys just, you know, you have to have a plan, have to have a plan, have to have a plan if you want out of a toxic relationship.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: The client that I'm thinking of, the abuse was started off as emotional. but it was starting to escalate into physical. And that's when she contacted me. So she was a doctor. He's a doctor. And it escalated where he slapped her across the face and she contacted me. And so the thing was, they didn't have children, but they were married and she saw the abuse starting to, you know, get worse. And so she came to me and had not even told him that she wanted a divorce. And the tricky part was that she had a large inheritance in a bank account in another country in her mother-in-law's name. So she needed to get that money out of, not only out of that country where she's from, but out of her mother-in-law's name into her name. So that's part of the strategic planning that we did. We had, and this is the safe and security part, right? So we first worked on this. to get that money out of the bank account. And so we put a plan together. We accomplished that. We got it out. We got it into her name in here in the US. And then once that was safe and secure, and she had been working on herself through the exercises and our private phone calls, then she was able to tell him that she wanted a divorce. And I actually have a testimony from her that says, that her divorce went smoothly from a narcissist, which is highly rare.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: I was going to say, that just sounds like, you know, you don't hear that together. Smooth divorce and narcissists. Unheard of. Well, that's great. I'm glad. I'm glad you were able to help her and that she's hopefully on her way to toxic free life and love. So what's new in 2024 for Denise? Any new books, new projects? What you got going on?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: You know, I'm thinking this year is more of a speaking because I haven't spoken. I speak online and podcasts and things like that, but not like in person because of all the stuff. And I'm thinking this year is, is get on stage, get in front of people, speaking. Yeah. And there is a book, there is another book. It's in my Google Doc, in my head, in my Google Doc, it has a title, it's all drafted out. It's just a matter of time of just sitting down and really putting it together. And I already have a publisher and, you know, all the other things because I've done them before. It's just really putting it together. But yeah, there's another book coming down. And I want to do a book on female narcissists.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yes, because they do exist. We talk so much about the guys and that is overwhelmingly men, but there are female narcissists. Absolutely. I think I know one or two.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: I think I do too.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Please keep me posted on that and any speaking engagements that if you do a little tour or whatever, I would love to support that. Absolutely.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Okay. Yeah.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yes, ma'am. So we are at the point in the chat where we do 10 candid questions.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Okay. Let's do it.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: I love that drum roll. All right. 10 candid questions. Super easy. 10 random questions that I picked from this huge retarded list that I found online. Only rule is you have to answer them candidly, right off the top of your head. Some of them require more thought than others, but you know, kind of first thing that comes to your mind kind of thing. So first question, introvert or extrovert.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Uh, I was an introvert, but clearly I'm not anymore.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: No, you are not ma'am. What would be the perfect birthday gift for you?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Time. Time spent with my loved ones. Yeah. Fine.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Coffee or tea?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Coffee.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Me too. What is the one thing that the world is lacking in your opinion?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Brains. Sorry, I had to say it.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Oh, that's a good answer. That was the first time anybody ever said that one. Most people say love or empathy or compassion. You were like brains.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: We're in the great awakening and some people don't see it and I'm just like, what?

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah. Wake up. All right. What is your favorite curse word? Uh, fuck. Mine too. Sometimes it just covers so much.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Exactly. It's so interchangeable. It's not just, it means one thing. It means like plethora of things.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yes, I agree. It's my fave. All right. How would you like to be remembered?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: By what I'm leaving, the legacy I'm leaving behind by helping people heal from abuse. Yeah.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: And I'm sure you will. Dogs or cats?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Dogs.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: If absolutely dogs, what is one question you wish that I had asked you during our chat and what would your answer have been?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Hmm. Um, that you stumped me on. Um, oh, okay. A question about my healthy relationship, my husband and how I would answer it is. Uh, you know, the story of how we met and fell in love. And then in June of 2020, in the beginning of the pandemic, had a gorgeous North Carolina beach wedding with a hundred guests. And it was amazing. It was such a fun wedding and how I manifested. I mean, just manifested so much.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yes. I think that's so beautiful. After 22 plus years, I'm sure of BS, you deserve it so much. So I'm so happy for you. Thank you. All right. Is there anything else you want to tell my listeners, but haven't had the chance to during our chat?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: I would say, you know, to be kind and patient with yourself during this time and that no matter what you've been through, you can create a life after narcissism, an amazing life after narcissism. You can be happy. You can have healthy love, a fun love. You can live out the rest of your life in a dream. Absolutely.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Nice, nice, nice. That's awesome. I'm glad you had a chance to say that. And final question, final question is always the same. How can my listeners connect with you, reach you if they want to avail themselves of your services or just maybe have a consultation call? How can they find you?

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Trueloveaftertoxiclove.com. That's my website and there's all the social media links. There's the email. They can email me and then we can converse and then we'll set up a time and they can have a heal your heart session.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Nice. There it is. Thank you so much. We are unfortunately at the end of our time, but I honestly can't tell you how awesome and just awesome our chat has been. It's just like talking to one of my good, good girlfriends. There you go. I appreciate you taking the time to sit down with me. It's evening. I'm sure hubby probably needs some of your time. But this was an important conversation. I wanted to drill down and have one-on-ones with you and the other ladies that was on the show, just so people could, number one, hear it again. you know, repetition kind of makes stuff sink in. And number two, so they could know your story, know about the work that you do and hopefully get some resources to get whatever help they need. Yes. Oh, I wish you so much continued success in whatever you do. I really, really do. I appreciate you so much.

DENISE KAVALIAUSKAS: Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for doing what you do in the world, because what you do is so beautiful and important. And I'm so grateful to be here on your platform and share this message.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Thank you so much, Denise. And guys, of course, Denise's contact information will be in the show notes when the episode posts. I got to say what I always say at the end of every episode. I want all you guys to keep it safe, keep it healthy and keep it candid.