Getting Your Resisting Loved One Into Treatment w/ Dr. Brian Licuanan

TRIGGER WARNING: This is a content trigger warning. In this episode, we will be discussing sensitive topics such as mental health, mental health crises, substance abuse, and suicidal ideation, which may be difficult and/or triggering for some of my listeners. Please use discretion when deciding to listen to this episode and be sure to take good care of your mental, physical, and emotional well-being. Thank you.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Hey, hey, hey, podcast family, it is your girl, Kandidly Kristin, and this is The Kandid Shop, your number one destination for candid conversations. If you are new to the show, welcome. If you are a returning listener, welcome back, and thank you so much for your support. So today, guys, I am sitting down with psychologist, speaker and author of the soon to be released book, How to Get Your Resisting Loved One Into Treatment, a step by step plan for mental health and or addiction crises. Dr. Brian and I'm going to try not to mess up his last name, Licuanan. So welcome, welcome, welcome, Dr. Brian. I'm going to call you Dr. Brian to the Kandid Shop.

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Thank you so much, Kristin. And you said my last name perfectly. So thank you very much and glad to be here.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Mental health and addiction are important topics to me both personally and I think to the world at large. So getting someone you love into treatment for either one of those can be super challenging. And I'm really excited to be having this chat with you. So thank you for your time today.

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: For sure. Thank you again.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: All right, so first of all, just so my listeners and myself can get to know a little bit about Dr. Brian, can you just talk to me a little bit about who Dr. Brian is and how you became interested in this intersection of psychology and mental health and addiction treatment?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Yes, yes. So, yes, that is correct. I am a psychologist and I practice out of California. I'm a psychologist. I have a PhD and I have a master's in counseling psychology and also in a field called industrial organizational psychology, which I'll probably mention in a second of how I arrived here. So yes, I practice. I conduct telehealth sessions. That's 100% of the work that I do. I'm also in private practice. I have a specialization in insomnia and work a lot with substance use disorder and now with a family crisis intervention. And I've been practicing for going on 20 years now and how I came about with this, it wasn't a straight road. Kristin, it was definitely not. I went through the stages, especially during my early adult years and college life, where I was one of those people that couldn't decide on what I want to do and what major I wanted to major in while all my friends were Passing me up and graduating and getting to relationships. I initially was entertaining the idea of law enforcement and then maybe FBI work because that seemed cool and Then I did some work working with severely and physically and emotionally abused adolescents and I enjoyed that and then I stumbled on a field where I a branch of psychology, which I had mentioned earlier, called industrial organizational psychology, which has nothing to do with therapy, but these are your human resource consultants who study behavior in the workplace. And I was originally in a PhD program there and just realized that that is not what I wanted to do. Okay, my skills weren't there. I just didn't feel passionate about it. And I realized that helping people in conversational and on a therapeutic level based on the work that I did with those children was probably something that I realized that I was passionate about. And then I got some feedback from family members and people who Validated that and said I think that would be a good field for you. And so I pursued that and got my degree and That's pretty much. I'm really enjoy that therapy is one of I believe those fields of work where you can bring a lot of yourself into it your personality your skills your values and it's very flexible and I And so in really understanding a person on an individual basis to me was the challenge. It's like the puzzle. And my job is to put the puzzles of the piece together and help the person try to improve whatever areas of life they want to be in. So as I said,Kristin, it wasn't a straight road, but it's one of those roads where I'm very happy and I believe this is where I was supposed to end up.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Nice, nice. So how did that turn into the book? Where did the addiction piece kind of intersect with your therapy that you've chosen, you know, niche in therapy?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Well, on that level, in terms of the book, for the past 15 years, I worked in a residential treatment facility where we had adult clients who we treated. They lived in our residence, and these were people who struggled. They were struggling mental health. They were from jail, homeless. failed multiple treatment centers, they've been dealing with their issues for years, maybe decades, highly acute clients. And then I also at the same time was facilitating, I still do, facilitating a group for the National Alliance on Mental Illness. And it is an organization that provides services to family members of people struggling with mental health, substance abuse. And what I realized over time is These questions that these family members would ask the people struggling individuals were pretty thematic, meaning that they they had the same questions, concerns, and struggles, and I felt like my response to these questions were also very thematic. And one day I was thinking about, why did I put this down in some type of manual? At first it started off with some slides to show over Zoom, then it started to be of some type of a small instructional guide to finally realizing, 2020 that why don't I put this into some type of formalized book or or strategy guide in which I did and I In March of 2020, I just started typing away and I typed the book. I mean, I completed the book in six weeks of just typing exactly the narrative that was in my head for all these years. And I just was hearing the family members and ask these questions and my responses and it actually came out very organized in my brain and I just put it on paper, and of course, through iterations and editing and so forth. That's where the book came from. It was, I believe, the missing knowledge that is out there, that family members struggle with. I was hoping to fill that gap.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: And you know what, that's funny because one of my second little bullets was to ask you what gap did you see that prompted you to kind of create this research, but you answered it so Okay. So I guess my next question is in terms of families who have a family member with either a mental health issue or an addiction issue or both, right? What in your experience in which you do are some of the top barriers that family members, loved ones, friends face when trying to persuade, cajole, just get someone that they love into treatment.

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: And you mentioned a good point, Kristan, is someone you love. And that alone is, believe it or not, it's sort of a paradox, is one of the biggest barriers. And I'll talk about that. If you don't mind, if I could just step back a little bit and talk about how I talk about the disease. In the medical model, a disease is when one of our organs aren't functioning. Heart, liver, kidney, brain disease. It could be a psychiatric condition. It could be a substance use disorder. It could be diabetes. It could be Crohn's disease. How I also define the disease in sort of my terms is some entity, right? It could be a person, place, situation, or thing that's chronic, meaning it's been a long time, and it causes impairment in one or more areas of our life. And so in that essence, Kristin, and I believe we all have some version of a disease. And it's not necessarily something that you can find in the Physician Desk Reference or the Diagnostic Statistical Manual, which is for mental health conditions. It could be anything that we perceive as a challenge. And I tell people, greed, right? You're not going to find that in a psychiatric manual as a diagnosis or medical, but it is something that can cause impairment in one's life. racism, right? If it causes impairment in your life and relationships, and it causes problems, that's your version of disease or materialism, okay? And so I hope you get the idea of what I'm referring to as this disease.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yes? Yes. Yes, I do.

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: And again, we all have our version of disease. And what I like to do is I like to separate this disease. This disease doesn't define anyone, right? No one is defined by their medical condition, but it's some entity that we can start to understand its characteristics, its patterns, and we can create this defense against it. And so what so that's one thing I want to talk about is we all have our version of a disease and if anyone's familiar with 12-step recovery They define disease in some way as this ease is not at ease something that makes you not at ease so so some of the biggest barriers with that disease and I like to conceptualize the disease as with this entity, and it's the oil and gas, if you may, as a vehicle is guilt and fear. And so you asked a great question of what are some of those barriers. And I believe guilt and fear are some of the biggest barriers to why family members aren't ready to pull the proverbial trigger on getting their loved ones help. So fear could be, well, if I put them into treatment, they're going to want to kill themselves, or they're never going to talk to us again, or they're going to end up homeless, or they're going to get kidnapped and sex trapped, or they're going to get beat up. Or guilt, right? For example, you get a lot of family dynamics who maybe a parent was an alcoholic throughout their life, and so they feel guilty for not being there, so they accommodate, in many ways, in what we call a navel, which, again, is not a bad word, but it perpetuates the problem. And so guilt and fear, I believe, are the two of many, but the two of the most heavily weighted barriers why family members aren't ready to set the boundaries and limits to get their loved one help.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah. Okay. And what about shame?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Well, shame, absolutely. Absolutely. Shame in terms of just humiliation. And one of the things that is really important to realize, and it's still pervasive and hopefully it's getting better, is there's a lot of stigma around mental health.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yes.

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Stigma meaning this mark of disgrace or shame meaning humiliation and some cultures a little bit more than others where mental health is seen as a weakness and some cultures something beyond this world for something where and there's a lot of shame for someone within a family to ask for help because of repercussions or family members sort of embarrassed to let it outside and seek the help that they need. But Kristin, if I can say, at least I could speak for the United States, is that we're seeing a gradual destigmatization of mental health as more and more people are talking about it. People like celebrities and athletes who come out about their mental health struggles, One of the silver linings of social media is you get a lot of people that talk about their own mental health struggles. And so I believe we are starting to see, and in the treatment and the work that I do, I'm starting to see more diversified cultures of different ethnicities and races come to treatment that historically weren't. So I believe we're not where we need to be. We are definitely moving in the right direction.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yes, I agree. I agree. I think the whole conversations just like this one are starting to, you know, put a crack in that at wall that was around mental health and addiction as well. There's so much stigma about and certain kinds of addictions carry more stigma than others. So that's a whole other conversation. But how important is it for a family, a friend, whoever the relationship is to the person that is resisting to have a solid plan in place And what would that plan look like? Like, what would that conversation look like with this person?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Again, Kristin, you mentioned another very, very big keyword is relationship. And the reason why I wrote this book as well is because There's a lot of great skills and techniques out there. It's just that sometimes people may interpret it the wrong way. For example, the terminology of use tough love for someone. That absolutely comes from a great place. What I have found in my support groups with people is they interpret tough love as sort of tough luck. Like, you get help. But we're done. By the way, the words that I talk about, we're done, are some of the most powerful words someone could say. However, what people tend to interpret it as is we're done means I'm totally disconnected from you. I don't care about you. And when someone is struggling out there, someone with depression, suicidality, their really low self-worth, when they feel or perceive that they have no one, hopelessness start to kick in. And then when you're hopeless, things like giving up, ending one's life, harming oneself, harming another person can become a little bit more prominent in someone's life. And so relationship is what I talk about is it just needs to look different. And I talk about the balance between having rules and relationship. To me, across the board, some of the most powerful relationships, and Kristin, you could probably speak to that, some of the healthiest dynamics and relationships that you have, whether it be with a family member, a sibling, a parent, a child, is a nice balance between rules and relationships. Relationships are this intimate bond that you have with someone, And then rules are these boundaries, okay? Your best friend, right? You may have a best friend or a sibling if you're very close to and you're very, very close. But I'm sure there's certain things you can't say to the person or treat the person a certain way. And those are what I mean by that relationship and rules. And same thing with someone who's struggling is the relationship just needs to look differently in this stage of getting them help is we can still set those boundaries. And some of the language I teach people to say is, We're going to love you. We're going to support you. We're going to be here for you. It's just that we can't continue to support this unhealthy lifestyle that you're living. That unhealthy lifestyle could be refusing to get help, refusing to take their medications if need, refusing to get sober, refusing to do anything to get themselves help. And so it puts the responsibility of the person and empowers them to know that they have a decision in the matter. And so relationship is critically important. And I talk about different ways to reinforce and strengthen that relationship, even during these really tough times of trying to get someone to help.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah, yeah. So I think I'm hearing that empathy and understanding play a huge part when you're trying to guide someone towards treatment. Empathy, yeah.

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Empathy is, and if I could stand, step back a little bit, is validation is a very powerful concept that I learned in the beginning of my training. So validation is this concept of acknowledging someone's truth. It doesn't mean you have to agree with it, doesn't have to believe it, but you just acknowledge someone's truth and I believe that is one of the hugest precursors to empathy And it's one of the biggest ways to break down barriers of miscommunications or fractures in relationships. I would say 99% of the people who have relationship issues typically come back to a communication issue. And very, very likely it's because one or more of the parties aren't understanding or validating each other's perspective. And which means, like I said, acknowledging their truth doesn't mean you have to agree with it, doesn't mean you have to believe it, that, hey, I hear what you're saying. And so, yes, absolutely, Kristin, empathy is a critical factor in relationship building and relationship maintenance.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Absolutely. And that goes for relationships with people that aren't in a substance abuse situation or a mental health situation. That is important, period, across the board. So I've got a friend who is clearly struggling with, I'm going to just pick a substance abuse issue. How do I as someone that cares and sees the need for them to get some kind of help. How do I balance their need and respect their autonomy with what I consider urgency that they get help? How do you balance that? So that I'm not stepping on their autonomy, but I'm also expressing the urgency that they get some help.

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Great question. There is a spectrum in just a little bit of my own life philosophy that I have found and through my counseling and just to let you know, I learn a lot every single session from every single client. That's at least the model that I do is because I learn a lot from them. I believe my interactions with clients provide this evolving canvas in strengthening my skill set as a clinician. And I believe one thing that I've learned is almost everything falls on a spectrum. For example, happiness is on a spectrum. It's not I'm happy or not happy. Life satisfaction is on a spectrum. Depression is on a spectrum. And referring back to what you referred to your friend is the level of need or level of crisis is on a spectrum. I talk about there's eminent crisis. Eminent crisis is this person is going to lose their life or something very bad is going to happen if we don't get help. Those cases, we need to do whatever it takes. Call 911. Many of the people that I have find are in some level of what I call developing or low-level crisis to moderate-level crisis. These are people who are struggling, but they haven't reached that point yet of an imminent crisis. But if they don't get help soon, they're gonna enter that imminent crisis very quickly. And that's where I feel many people and family members get stuck. is they're so scared to take action but they don't realize inaction is actually perpetuating the problem because the longer they stay in that state, the harder it is for them to want to get help and get out of that struggling state. And so that would be my first thing, Kristin, to tell you is kind of assess what level of urgency or crisis are they in? And that would be my first step. The other step we'd do is, one thing that we had found out is that human beings, when we tell them what they can and cannot do, we resist it, correct? And that was very prominent in the pandemic. We saw people, social distance or not, We wear the mask or don't wear the mask. Don't get the vaccine. And it really got me thinking, and actually I wrote a certain section in the book based on this knowledge that came across during the pandemic era. And so I sort of integrated in my work with family members is don't take away their choice. If you tell someone you can't drink anymore, if you tell someone that what they can and cannot do, Our natural instinct is to resist that we feel threatened. What a boundary to me is, is being very clear on what I'm willing to be a part of and not be a part of. And I don't know the situation for your friend, but I talk about different levels of intervention. So usually the first step would be a You know, you're really struggling. I want to help you. I don't know exactly how to help you. Let me see if I can get some help. Let's see if we can work together. Okay, that doesn't work. The second level is, hey, I'm really concerned about you. I really want to get you help. It's impacting my life and this dynamic isn't healthy for us. And the third level would be, hey, I can't be a part of this anymore. And when I need you to get help, I'm always gonna be here for you. And so what to do is what setting a boundary is, like I mentioned, is it's being very clear on what I'm willing to participate and not. And it's not the saying, I don't love you, I don't care, which I talked about earlier. A boundary is just being very clear on where my position is, and that's what I would encourage you to tell your friend. I don't know exactly what levels and attempts you've made, but if it gets to the point where, hey, I care about you, I love you, you not getting help is impacting my well-being, and I can't be a part of that, I wanna be a part of the healthy version of you. Yeah. And as you can hear, that's different than saying, I'm done with you. Get out of my life. Right. Right. As we can plant those seeds that you are still love. It's just that this is the lifestyle I am not going to be a part of any longer. Does that answer your question, Kristin?

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: That does, and it's also a super great segue into my next question to you is, how do the people who are the loved ones of this person with this issue, whatever it is, take care of their own mental and physical health while dealing with this loved one, this resistant loved one specifically?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Well, if, especially your listeners, if anyone out there is struggling, you know, one thing I want to communicate them is that there's always hope, right? There's always solutions to problems. And, and if we, once we lose hope, then things become very, very difficult. I've worked with very, very severe cases. I literally worked with someone who attempted suicide 48 hours prior coming to treatment. This client was able to reestablish relationship, start to begin on building self-worth after intensive treatment, and start to live of sobriety. I've had people who were homeless on the streets be able to believe in themselves again and have these belief systems that life is worth living. And so that's one thing I want to tell all your listeners, no matter how lonely, how maybe dysfunctional your upbringing was, there's there's solutions to issues and there's people and resources that we could really, really take advantage of. So that's number one thing is we have the family members and individuals have to have hope. And the other thing I like to tell people struggling out there, it's okay to raise your hand and say, I need help. Sometimes a lot is we if we're brought in an upbringing where mental health is a weakness, humility, meaning that lacking pride and ego is, that's another barrier, by the way, Kristin, is having too much pride or ego. And at the end of the day, the person struggling is the one who's losing in that situation. But to me, some of the most powerful people in the world are the ones who can raise their hand in humility and say, I have a problem and I need help. And you see that across the board with very successful people in their own right, whether it be sobriety, whether it be raising a family, whether it be the owner of a company, is they recognize that they have their limitations. They don't let those limitations stop them, but they're able to have enough humility to raise their hand and say, I need help in this area. And there are people who care. Sometimes people out there feel like they're completely alone. And just know there are resources and people who care, but people won't know that you're struggling if you don't tell them. I tell clients all the time is, hey, I can only help you as much as you tell me. And so, know that there's resources, know that there are people that care, know that there's hope no matter what you're dealing with. And it's okay to be okay with being uncomfortable and saying, hey, I need some help.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Absolutely. That is an absolutely important point to make. So your book. When you wrote it, was there a thought in mind of what you hoped readers would take away from it? And second part of that question is, how do you think that your book in particular can impact the way mental health, addiction, those issues are addressed in our society better? Do you hope it'll be better?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Well, when I sat down to, or when I was formulating the book, whether it be on paper in my head, the drive, motivating force, or at least the thought process behind it, Kristin, was what's missing out there? What are the gaps of knowledge that are missing out there? And it's not so much that people weren't talking about certain things. But sometimes it's how they interpret it. Like I mentioned earlier, tough love. That comes from a loving place. What tough love means is to empower the family to stop being put in a disempowered position and telling the family members is you have power in a situation. And so that was one part of what I was hoping is to rephrase some of these well-meaning thoughts of knowledge and skills to a way that family members can utilize it in their best advantage and to get their loved one help. So that's number one of the biggest things. And again, also, With the questions and concerns that family members and individual have, I believe there is some gaps of knowledge, like suicidality. A lot of family members, that keeps them, some of the thought process, for example, would be, well, I know my son is upstairs and he's drinking alcohol and taking painkillers, but as long as he's not out on the streets and getting mugged or beaten up, I know my daughter, I know she's in that apartment, and I know she's smoking lots of marijuana, not going to school, using the money for substances, but as long as she's not being abducted in traffic. And those are very valid fears. But losing a loved one, suicidality, or dying in situations are some of those gaps in knowledge. I talk about several myths about suicidality. I talk about the three inevitable consequences to untreated mental health or addiction, especially if it's nearing a crisis level. People end up in jail, they end up in the hospital, or they lose their life. Sometimes they end up homeless, but they eventually will end up in jail, hospital, or they lose their life. intentionally or unintentionally harm someone else or take someone else's life. And that last one of losing your loved one, that is a very, very big one where it precludes people from getting their loved one help. And we have to accept that. I don't think, as a parent myself, I don't think we could ever accept that emotionally, but we have to accept the reality that that can happen the longer The worse that person gets, the longer they don't get help. Once we're able to accept that, then we're able to… develop a plan for that. So those were some of the things that my hope is the purpose behind it was fill up those gaps of knowledge and kind of reframe some knowledge that's already out there. Some of it is new knowledge for some people, some people it's maybe knowledge they've known but hopefully gives a different slant. And for mental health and addiction, I'm hoping what it does there is, again, continues to destigmatize mental health. That it's okay to talk about it and having a step-by-step guide. That's one thing I also find that there's all these things, stop enabling, but there's not a how-to do it. There's a what, but there's not a how-to. And I talk about 12 steps Ironically, it has nothing to do with, of course, 12-step recovery, but it just so happened my 12 steps is a step-by-step process to getting their loved one help, such as identify the problem, rate the severity of the crisis, and gather your resources, set boundaries and limits, and so forth.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: I hope that answers your question. It does, and you're giving me great segues into what I want to talk about next. Resources, so other than your book, when it comes out, and when does it come out, just an aside?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: As of now, May 1st of this year is when it's going to come out. We went through the formatting and everything, and now We're in the process of finalizing the publication, and it will be available in paperback and ebook form. But May 1st is the target date.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Nice. All right. That's going to be in the show notes, y'all. Whenever I get the link, I'm going to add it. So but other than your book, what other resources or additional support do you recommend for individuals, families, friends who are trying to get a resisting loved one into some kind of treatment?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Well, if I can say two is Google is a very powerful thing. A lot of things that I find comes around Google. Of course, you have to vet things that you find on Google. But Google is a great way to start with anything. You can Google almost anything and something will show up. In addition to that, some organizations that I mentioned earlier, the National Alliance on Mental Illness, NAMI.org, is I think one of the largest mental health organizations that's global, that provides services to family members or loved ones struggling with mental health or addiction. And if you go to their website, there's a lot of either blogs or educational videos, their support groups throughout, whether it be for family members, whether it be for people struggling. So NAMI is a great resource, the National Alliance of Mental Illness, NAMI.org. The Depression Bipolar Support Alliance, DBSA, is another organization that provides services. The World Health Organization, WHO, you look under mental health, there's resources there as well. If you are looking for a 12-step recovery, whether it be Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, Cocaine Anonymous, Gamblers Anonymous, you can Google. And there are local meetings and support. And so those are one of many resources out there. that can at least point you in some direction or a starting point.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: OK, thank you for that. And that is going to be in the show notes as well, in case you folks weren't writing it down. So my last question to you is, what would your best piece of advice be to someone that's listening to this and thinking, you know, I've tried a lot of stuff to get my loved one. into some kind of treatment program or get them help, what would your best piece of advice be for that person?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: My best piece of advice for that person or persons would be you're not alone. You are not alone. I know emotionally that we can feel very alone, but we know the reality sometimes our logical brain knows that we're not alone, but for some reason, we feel alone. And I'm telling you, you are not alone. Well, the NAMI, National Alliance of Mental Illness, says one in five, one in six people struggle with some type of mental health condition. And I've worked with so varied demographics. It doesn't matter if it's their socioeconomic status, their level of education, where they live, their ethnicity, race, culture. You pick up the roof on any of these families and there's some issue there, some issue of struggle. And that's what I mean by we're not alone. I've seen people from poverty and people who are extremely wealthy come into a room and they can relate to each other because of some type of struggle. This disease that I referred to earlier really, really fractures families, tears people apart, and causes a great deal of harm. But the recovery or the treatment process actually can bring people together. And I believe as the human condition, our natural inclination is to connect with people. And group dynamics is so powerful, whether it be your church group, a grief and loss group, an Alcoholics Anonymous group. Fellowship is critically important and it's so important for the healing process where people can connect with each other, learn from another, support one another, and validate they're not alone. And to me, that would be one of my biggest, in addition to having hope, because no matter how hopeless a case may seem, there are solutions and people can get better. It's never too late. to make that change. It's just a matter of reformulating the strategy.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yes, that's awesome. Thank you for that. And I'm sure even if one person listens to this when it goes out, whenever it goes out and is encouraged and given, you know, just a little bit of hope by what we've discussed here, then I will have done my job. So thank you. Thank you so much. This is always an important conversation, like to me. I have personal history with substance abuse. I know people currently who are struggling with various mental health issues and substance abuse issues. So I never get tired of talking about ways that we can dispel misinformation, kind of scrub that scarlet letter that gets pasted on people whenever you talk about mental health or substance abuse off and kind of, you know, just help in this area. So it's one of my favorite things to talk about. So thank you for being here today with me. Thank you for your upcoming book. I can't wait to get it, to share it with the people that I know. I think it's going to be, you know, just another brick in the foundation of support and resources that we need. So thank you.

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Thank you, and I appreciate what you're doing in continuing to de-stigmatize mental health and substance use issues. And that's how it starts is having a conversation about it. And it may be one person, it could be a hundred people, but planting that seed that it's okay to talk about it in the form that you do really, really facilitates the de-stigmatization process. I really want to express the value of what you're doing as well.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Thank you so, so much, but we are so not done with our little time together. We still have to. So my favorite part, we still have to play 10 candid questions. All right. All right. So 10 candid questions, just 10 random questions. The only rule is you have to answer them candidly. You ready? Yeah, I'm ready. All right. Question number one, what is your biggest pet peeve?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Biggest pet peeve is not acknowledging someone. Acknowledging someone because it's not what you say, but it's how you make someone feel is what has a lasting impression. So acknowledging someone.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: That's a great one. Nobody's ever said that before. Most people say liars or dishonest. That's a great one.

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Chewing with your mouth open.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Right. That's great. Thank you. So question number two, plane ride or road trip? Road trip. Me too. Question number three, what's the most valuable lesson you've learned from a mistake or failure in your life?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: That it's, Never okay to tap out, meaning to give up just due to fear.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: I love that. That's a great answer. Question number four, early bird or night owl?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Night owl.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Okay. Question number five, what motivates you to get up in the morning?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: My wife and two kids.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Question number six, sunrises or sunsets? Sunrises. Yeah, sunrises are awesome. Question number seven, what's one thing you believe everyone should experience once in their lifetime?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Traveling to embrace, acknowledge, and appreciate another culture.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Emails. Question number eight, phone calls or texts? Texts. Me too, I'm a texter. Question number nine, if you had the entire world's undivided attention for five minutes, what would you say?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: Know your impact and have an impact.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Nice. And question number 10, which is the same for everybody, how can my listeners connect with you and get your new book?

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: I have a website, and I'll spell it. It's drbrianlaquanin.com. Dr. D-R, no space or period,Brian Licuanan. L-I-C as in cat, U-A-N as in Nancy, A-N as in nancy.com, drbrianlicuanan.com. I don't know if I put Brian in there the second time, but it's drbrianlicuanan.com. That and my book is featured there and it is planned to be released via Amazon and Barnes and Nobles and ebook and paperback form. But those are some of the ways to get in touch with myself or find out about the book.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Nice, nice, nice, nice. And if any of you guys are on the West Coast or anywhere and want to, you know, engage Dr. Licuanan’s therapeutic expertise, I'm sure that's on his website as well, like a contact form if you want to do therapy with him. All of that, by the way, guys, will be in the show notes website with clickable link. When I have a link to the book on Amazon, I will add that to the profile as well so that you can just go into show notes and find all the information and click on it and it'll take you there. But Dr. Brian, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for your time. Thank you again for the book. It's important, it's needed, and I think it's gonna, hopefully, it's my hope that it impacts a lot of people.

DR BRIAN LICUANAN: That's the hope, and appreciate again having me here and to help spread that hope to people out there.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Absolutely. So in closing, I just want to say this is, it can be a heavy topic. It can be triggering for some people listening, but I want to reiterate that there's help out there. There's resources out there. Also in the show notes will be links to NAMI.org. There's a suicide and crisis lifeline text number, which is 988. There's the National Helpline, SAMHSA's National Helpline is 1-800-662-HELP or 1-800-662-4357. so please know you're not alone and if you're struggling or if you're in crisis, please reach out to someone. 

That's the end of our time together, Dr. Brian. I want to remind you guys, though, don't forget to visit my website at www.TheKandidShop.com. That's Candid with a K. Listen to an episode or 10. Drop me a review. Follow me on all socials @ the kandidshoppodcast, please share the show with your family, friends, co-workers, and neighbors. And until the next time we meet, I want you all to keep it safe, keep it healthy, and keep it kandid.