Life & Love Beyond Labels: A Kandid Chat on Identity and Marriage w/Sam and Vanessa Castle

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Hey, hey, hey, Podcast Nation, it's your girl, Kandidly Kristin, and this is The Kandid Shop, your number one destination for kandid conversations. If you're a new listener, welcome. And if you're a returning listener, welcome back and thanks for your support. So today, at long last, I am sitting down for a kandid chat on love, authenticity, and identity with life coach and host of the “Be You, Do You”, podcast, Mr. Sam Castle, who is also a certified behavioral health professional specializing in neuro-linguistic programming, and he gonna have to tell me what that is, and trauma-informed coaching. Also joining us, and this is a special treat, is Sam's wife, MSW, and fervent LGBTQ plus advocate, Vanessa Castle. So welcome, welcome, welcome, Sam and Vanessa to The Kandid Shop.

VANESSA CASTLE: Thank you so much for having us.

SAM CASTLE: Yeah. Good to be here. Good to be here.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Thank you for making some time to chat with me today. So you guys know we've been trying to nail down doing this episode for a while. So let's just get right into it. I'm a stats person. I like stats. So I pulled some stats from the Pew Institute Center and it says that some 5.1% of adults younger than 30 are non-binary or trans, including 2% who are a trans man or trans woman and 3% who are non-binary. So it doesn't seem like a big number, but I think it's kind of indicative of the way people are feeling a little more free to be their authentic selves. Would you agree? Yes or no? Yes, I would definitely agree. Yes. All right. So before I want to roll it back, because I want to ask you, Sam, if you could tell me and my listeners a little bit about who Sam Castle is, your journey to becoming a certified behavioral health professional. And please, please, please tell me what neurolinguist programming is.

SAM CASTLE: OK, wow. Where do I start? I'm Sam. I was born in Oakland, California. Single parent household, primarily raised by my mom and grandmother. Knew at a very young age, I'd say around six. that I was different. And because I say different, I'm speaking from that time. I say different because I didn't have the language for what I was experiencing. And growing up in a Christian household, that also added another layer of fear of being able to go to my mom and say, hey, mom, I don't feel like I'm a girl. So I didn't really have the language for it. And so most of my life, I experienced just suppressing, suppressing that part of who I was. So as I navigated through that journey, it was very challenging. Like I said, I didn't really have a huge support system. I didn't really have anyone who I could identify with or anyone that looked like me. Fast forward around my 20s, I found out that my grandmother's brother transitioned from male to female. They had since moved away so I didn't really have any contact with them. get any information or, you know, you know, all of the things like, oh my God, I found this out. Let me go connect with this person and see how they can help me. They had moved away because, again, of the stigma, the shame, the guilt that, you know, the family had projected onto them for them being who they are. So again, it just led me down this path of me just trying to figure out who I was on my own. And so, Um, fast forward 2018, I just took a leap of faith with the support of my lovely wife here. And, um, I started my gender transition. I knew the opportunity was going to present itself. I just didn't know when, I didn't know how, I didn't know what it was going to look like. Um, but I'm so grateful for all the resources that I've been, you know, provided and the support system now that I have in my life. And that's pretty much what put me on the path to being a life coach and getting involved in behavior. because I feel like that's a huge part of what is affecting our community is the mental health aspect of it. And so that's why I'm really huge on mental health, personal development, and the mind, like mindset. I'm really big on mindset. So that's how I wrote to my destination.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Okay. All right. And, and just for me, cause I read it and it's like, yeah, yeah. Neurolinguistics. So that's like language and the brain and, but please define NLP for me, what it, what it means in terms of what you do.

SAM CASTLE: Um, so before I became a life coach, I took a certification in neural linguistic programming techniques is basically, uh, involving language and the mind. Um, how we program, which our thoughts and being able to reprogram our thoughts, um, from our past experiences. Um, it definitely helps people who have experienced past traumas or current traumas. And so that's what. Um, that programming is all about is dealing with the mind, the thoughts, behavior, and, um, which ultimately leaves leads to our actions, like how we're navigating throughout the world.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Okay, that's interesting. I have to dig deeper into that because that's kind of interesting to me.

SAM CASTLE: So yeah, I was sorry, I was gonna no, no, go ahead. That was something that that I did more so for me. So when I decided to invest in myself, I invested in a life coach myself. And that was kind of what confirmed my purpose. So when I invested in life coach, that's what came with it was, um, challenging my belief systems, which, you know, related to my identity, working on my value. And so that neural linguistic programming was more so something that I did for myself within my coaching container. That makes sense. That was used for me.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Okay, and I'm going to just assume and I probably shouldn't that it was extremely helpful for you in your personal journey.

SAM CASTLE: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Because, you know, I grew up with a set of beliefs as a child, especially around my identity. You know, I was broken, something was wrong with me, I needed to be fixed. I won't go to hell because, you know, of how I identified and wanting to change my gender. So doing that work with my coach, helped me, you know, dig to the root of why my belief systems were the way they were, where they came from. And I had no idea that I could change, you know, my belief systems. And I did. I didn't even know that was something that I could do. I thought I had to hold, you know, for the rest of my life, but.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Isn't that something? So listen, in digging around and trying to be a little bit more knowledgeable in preparation for our conversation, I wanted to kind of find a general, and I'm doing air quotes, general definition for transgender. And this is what I found. Transgender is an umbrella term for persons whose gender identity, gender expression, or behavior does not conform to that typically associated with the sex to which they were assigned at birth. To both of you, is that an accurate kind of general definition?

SAM CASTLE: Yeah, that's pretty accurate. I didn't go out with my assigned gender at birth.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Okay. So Sam, this one's for you. Tell me about some of the challenges you faced in your journey to live authentically and how you overcame them. Like what got you through?

SAM CASTLE: That's a good question too. A big part of, you know, a big part of the reason why I, you know, it took me so long and I don't regret the decision. But a big part of why I didn't transition sooner was because of family. Losing my family, the fear of being rejected, and just the fear of what people were going to think or say. That was my biggest hurdle. Yeah. It wasn't me questioning whether or not I should do it. It wasn't me questioning whether or not, you know, I felt like it was right or wrong. It had nothing to do with that. It had everything to do with wanting to please my family and wanting to do more so what I thought would make them happy versus make me happy.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Right, right. And overall, in the people that you coach or that you know that are transgender, is that like a common theme more than, you know, because I don't believe that people don't know who they are. Like, I don't think that's what stops people. I think it's about societal pressures, norms, and that family piece.

SAM CASTLE: Oh, yeah, absolutely. A lot of the a lot of my clients, just a lot of individuals within the LGBTQ community alone. Family is a big reason, which is why we really create our own communities and families, because a lot specifically in the Black culture, you know, that's that's shunned, that's frowned upon. What you're gay, what you're what do you mean? You know, so a big part of my challenge was definitely family. And what got me through that was my faith. That's also something that is often found in the community as well. We still love God. Right. And God still loves you. But what I found is like we the community is deep in our, you know, in our faith. And I feel like that's that's what gets us through. Well, that's what got me through my faith. Right. Like I said, I invested in personal development. I've been in personal development for the last, I want to say, four or five years or so. I feel like that's played a huge part in my growth and just overall how I see myself. So I'm in that I'm in that phase of life where you're going to argue with yourself because I'm not giving you time or energy to argue with you about who I am. OK.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: I love it. I love it. OK, so I want to I want to talk a little bit about the work that you do, Sam and Vanessa. I am coming to you. I promise. But OK. Sam, I believe intersectionality plays a significant role in most people's lives. So in your work, how do you address like the intersection of race, gender identity, socioeconomic differences, faith, when you're coaching people from like diverse backgrounds or ethnicities? How do you work with that?

SAM CASTLE: You have some good questions this morning. I try. I'll be honest with you. I'm still learning how to navigate those intersectionalities. Um, okay. What I've found throughout my own journey is that, um, I, you know, I let my clients know they can be all, all things. You don't have to choose if that makes sense. Is that, is that.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Is that your question? Yes. Yes. I think that when, you know, you're African-American, you're transgender, and I'm going to do are all your clients are not all transgendered or.

SAM CASTLE: I'm still getting clear on my audience, but specifically, I you know, I prefer that it's Black trans men, because that's been my experience. But I'm still learning as I go. I know I'm not for everyone. I'm always open to help anyone who is simply help. But my target audience is marginalized communities, specifically people of color, trans men of color.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: And listen, I think that we often start with this big thing and then it kind of niches down and you whittle it down and you're like this. You land on exactly your demographic and the people that you know you can best help. So I think that's perfectly fine.

SAM CASTLE: Yeah, that's what's been transpiring for me is getting more clear on on who I want to provide coaching to, because it's a lot. A lot of individuals out there are struggling with trauma, and I'm trauma-informed, so that's my jam right there.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Okay. And that's important. So victimization, shaming, blaming, some probably three of the biggest issues or challenges in the transgender community and misinformation and stereotypes. So how do you approach helping your clients to overcome them? Like, how do you kind of somebody says, I want to have a conversation with, you know, my family or whoever they're trying to to tell about themselves. And how how would you advise them to kind of navigate their conversation to kind of pierce through the many, many, many, many misconceptions and myths about transgender people?

SAM CASTLE: I feel like education is a huge part. There's so much misinformation out there. And where we're at now, there's no excuse to stay ignorant. You're a Google search away from finding out what it means to be transgender, how someone gets to that. There's so much information out there. So what I try to tell my clients is always stay firm in who you are. Um, boundaries is huge. Um, and also affirm, affirm who you are first, because for me, if, if I didn't love my, like, if I didn't love myself, I can't have this expectation that someone else is going to love me if I can't love myself or if I can't affirm myself. So I'm big on affirming who you are first, validate who you are first, love you first. And then with loving you. navigating family, navigating friends and co-workers, it's easier. It makes it less difficult if you stand firm in who you are.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah, yeah. Because the challenges are going to come. You're going to face ignorant people. You're going to face people who have like a firm hold on whatever their belief system is that says that this is morally wrong or whatever. And I have a list of myths that when I read them, they're just ridiculous. So you're going to, you're going to come up against that in an ideal world. You know, people could be who they are, period, full stop, but that's not where we are yet. So it's important that people have like tools to kind of deal with it. And, and so they don't internalize it. You know what I mean?

SAM CASTLE: Yeah, for sure. I'm huge on therapy and coaching and personal development. Personal development is within coaching. It's also within therapy. But it also comes down to you being willing to do the work, even if it's uncomfortable. Because there was moments in my journey, in my personal development journey, where I was, I was ready to quit. I didn't want to, you know, face things that were coming up, especially around, you know, my upbringing, my emotions, um, the resentment I had towards my mom and my dad not be like, there was a lot of stuff that was coming up for me.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Um, yeah.

SAM CASTLE: But it's working through that stuff where you can actually see better and where you're going. That's what happened for me. Once I was able to dig through all of that shit, I can see clear now. I can navigate better. I have better discernment. I'm very in tune now with myself. So my encouragement would just be focus on you. to my client, focus, focus on you. The more you can focus on you, the less you're distracted by what's going on on the outside.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah. Yeah. And listen, that's good advice, no matter what your sexual orientation is. Yeah.

SAM CASTLE: Yeah. I just say that in our community.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah. No, no. And that's good advice.

SAM CASTLE: Yeah. A lot of times we're seeking for this this external validation and acceptance. And, you know, some it's not going to come. It's just not going to happen. Yeah. So what we do, we got to be OK with that.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah. You got to figure out how to be OK. All right. Now, Miss Vanessa, how are you?

VANESSA CASTLE: I'm good.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: All right. So listen, talk to me about who Vanessa is. what you do, and how you and Sam met. I want a little bit of your love story journey.

VANESSA CASTLE: Okay. So I would consider myself to be a very compassionate person. I tend to put others first at times in my life, but through my own experiences, I would say that I've been able to just be more connected and know who I am a little bit more as I get older, which I think is typical for most of us. I am working, I'm a social worker. So I work in a mobile crisis unit. And so we respond to crisis calls from community members, the police department, anyone who is having a mental health crisis, they can call our line. And then we would go to wherever they are and respond to try to provide services. So in addition to being a social worker, I also do therapy for patients at work, which I thoroughly enjoy. That's definitely one of my passions. And so I get to incorporate a little bit of the excitement with the crisis side, and then doing the therapy and helping people grow out of their fears or, you know, learning how, not just how to cope with what they have going on in life or whatever their diagnosis is, but being able to heal from these past traumas and not just be given multiple coping tools, you know, over and over and just kind of running in circles with it. So I'm very passionate about that.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: It sounds like it. I love it. So talk to me, talk to me about you and Sam, because I love a good love story. So.

VANESSA CASTLE: So, Sam and I met in college. Actually, it was our undergrad. We were both getting a bachelor's in criminal justice and we met in college and we've just been rolling together ever since. That was about 10 years ago, a little over 10 years now.

SAM CASTLE: So nice, nice. She got me with her chocolate. She she's not she's not worried. So what happened was I walked into. I walk into the classroom late. I was late because I was, you know, working a job and I happened to get late, show up late. I walk in the classroom. I said that I could feel someone staring at that. How are they? Okay, okay. And it was over from there. I knew she was over.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah. That's awesome. I'm such a step. I love stuff like that. So, Vanessa. Yes. Can you talk to me from your perspective about Sam's journey, both not only as a transgendered male, but as a life coach?

VANESSA CASTLE: So, Sam's journey has been very unique. I think, you know, if I can backtrack a little bit, when we first met, you know, this was pre-transition, and there was always, you know, conversation about how he would say, um, you know, I real, this is how I really feel, but I don't want to lose my family or I'm afraid of what would happen. And so we've, we had conversations about it early on in our relationship. And, uh, it was something that we. Constantly we're talking about, but I just was trying to give him time to figure that out. And I think for me, it's important that he knew. I know who you are. And when we're at home, I'm going to use this language. Instead of saying she, I'm going to say he. And so for us, it was a long journey, I think, to get here. But I already knew who Sam was when we met. It was something that we talked about. And so when the transition actually started to transpire in 2018, It wasn't something where I felt like I had to make a decision. Okay. Now my I, you know, I'm going from having a wife to having a husband and now what do I do that? That was never earned for me. So I felt like, you know, we always had good communication and there was a lot of conversations and his journey has been, you know, there's been a lot of joy in it because You know, being totally kandid and honest, prior to transition, there's a lot of emotions, including depression and this feeling of dread and, oh, I have to get up today and deal with these people and, you know, deal with someone misgendering me or using the wrong pronouns. And that's really stressful. So we just to a point where I said, listen, I don't want anything to happen to you. I work in behavioral health. I know what the suicide rates are and we are not doing that. So we need to seriously think about how we're going to move forward here. And if you want to transition, then we need to do it now because I could see how unhappy he was prior. And so getting to that place where he finally felt comfortable and knowing that, you know, I wasn't going anywhere and we were going to figure it out together, that was really important for me. And so now here we are. It is much easier. So, you know, and that makes me happy too, because, you know, as a spouse, when you watch your spouse going through something traumatic and, and constantly feeling like they just can't live as their authentic self, you know, that is stressful on the spouse too. I was constantly worried about what's going to happen today. Is he going to be okay? You know, it's, um, it's tough, but yeah. And through it.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: But look at what, I mean, I wish, wish, wish that every single person had someone like you as they try to navigate, excuse me, navigate what cannot be an easy thing to do, but has to be done. Because who wants to just walk around every day being something other than who they really are? So if everybody could remember Vanessa, that'd be awesome. Yeah, yeah. I thank you. I thank you for Sam for that.

VANESSA CASTLE: It's really all about quality of life. And, you know, there's all the sayings about, well, you only get one life and you get, you know, YOLO, you know, you only live once. For me, I think during that time, it was a whole lot more than that. And I could see all of the potential being stuck. And I said, we need to just open up the floodgates. And I, and I also didn't want him to feel pressured either. It wasn't like I'm sitting on the sideline, like you need to do this, but For me, it was so if this is who you are and you're sure about that and you want to do this, then let's do it.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Nice. I love it. I love it. So, Vanessa. Talk to me about some of the external, because you guys didn't have any of these biases or challenges that you faced that you personally, Vanessa, faced because you not only married an African-American man, but a transgender man. And how did you kind of manage them if and when they came up?

VANESSA CASTLE: So I feel like I've been pretty fortunate. I haven't had a whole lot of experiences where I was questioned about why did you marry a black man or, you know, why stay with a trans man? You know, like I, I haven't really been questioned about that. My family has been really supportive. Um, And I think there may be parts of it that they don't understand. But even my grandmother, you know, my 83-year-old grandmother came to campus a few years ago. And, you know, as soon as I opened the front door, she took one step inside and she pulled me over and said, OK, now how do I address Sam? Yeah. And, you know, so that meant a lot to me too, because she's, you know, grew up in a very small town in Oregon and she hasn't really been exposed to that many, you know, people of color either. So, um, but yeah, I've, I've had some really good experiences. There's been a few times maybe when we're out in public where, you know, we get a few looks here and there. Um, but I think it also could be because I'm tall and Sam's short and. There's other factors there. I'm a curvy girl and so much of that changes the way people look at us. But I also am very firm in who I am and I don't allow people to question that. And so if someone ever did approach me and ask me that, it just, there would be no response needed. And because I feel like, why is everyone else with their spouse? Because you love them.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Right. Right. Right.

VANESSA CASTLE: Do I need to say anything else besides because I love him? No.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Right.

VANESSA CASTLE: That's it. That's all you need to know.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: I love it. I like her. Yes. I do too. So, Vanessa, how do you balance your career and your personal goals in life with Sam's role as a life coach? And how do you guys find ways, if you do, to kind of integrate your respective passions and goals and careers?

VANESSA CASTLE: Yeah. So I, um, really try to incorporate self-care into my weeks. Uh, I won't say everything, but we, you know, um, we like to go get mannies and pennies together and, uh, I like to just kind of take a drive out to the water, whatever nearest body of water that we can find. And maybe we'll have lunch there. Um, yeah. Um, I'm also, you know, I spend time with myself in the car, um, driving, I have about an hour drive to work, you know, to there and then an hour back. So, um, I listen, I listen to a lot of gospel music in the car. Um, and I just, you know, sing all my favorite songs and that's good self-care for me, at least on a daily basis, but. I think also Sam and I have very similar visions as far as helping people and what that looks like. We don't want to just help people feel better for the moment or for the day. I want you to feel like you have a whole new perspective on your life and how you can have that better quality of life just because you tweaked one little thing about your mindset or you changed one little thing about your belief system and you recognized you know, that you're worth more than what you were ever told you were, or whatever the case may be that has to do with that past trauma. I do have a passion also for helping the LGBT community because we know about our, you know, statistics and depression, anxiety, suicide. There's a lot out there, but I think eventually, you know, I still have two years of clinical supervision to do in order to be a licensed clinical social worker, and then I can do therapy on my own. So, eventually, what we are going to do with our clients is they would either start with me with therapy or start with Sam with coaching and we would just help clients together. So, I would do the therapy aspect and then Sam would do the coaching.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: That sounds awesome. I can see that for you guys. Sure. For sure. So, and this question is more for Vanessa, but Sam, I'd like you to kind of, you know, give me your take on it, but how do you envision the role of spouses, partners, or allies in kind of creating a more inclusive and understanding society as a whole?

VANESSA CASTLE: I think it's really important for spouses to speak up when there's any, it's like that saying, if you see something, say something. Um, but I think we need to create more space for spouses to be talking and sharing their journey because there may be situations where you have a couple that is like us and one person is saying, well, I'm this person and I want to transition and maybe the other spouse is kind of lost in limbo. Like they don't really know what to do. Or, you know, a lot of people are stuck on this identity of, Well, I'm a lesbian. That's who I am. And I'm not going to be with somebody that's transgender because then I'm not a lesbian anymore. Um, but that's not the case. We get too stuck on these titles and these labels. We had a space where spouses could come together and talk and share their experience and also have open meetings where other people can just come in. Even if it's somebody that's just trying to learn and understand more. Um, I think that that would be great for society, even if you have. maybe parents of transgender kids or parents of someone who's gay or lesbian or bi or non-binary, whatever it is, I just feel like we need to have those support groups in place. So that would be something eventually we would work on too.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah, I agree. Yes, yes, yes. So this question is for the both of you, and it's about marriage. So marriage is marriage, okay? And it's beautiful and wonderful and there's so much yumminess, but it's work too. So no matter your sexuality or gender preferences, marriages work. It's, you know, most of us, even as much as we love our partner, there's still, you know, times when there's, you know, some challenges or whatever. But for you two in particular, were there any particular challenges for you two? And that doesn't have to be around the gender issue, just challenges, period.

VANESSA CASTLE: Yeah, I would say communication, it took us a while to kind of drill down our communication and a lot of conversation around what we each needed, what we liked, what we didn't like, and really just understanding each other, I think, to the core because everyone has different communication styles and some people you know, would think that it's okay if, um, you know, one person is mad and they're just yelling like, oh, that's normal. Um, where, you know, I grew up with a lot of yelling in my household. And so that's something that I absolutely do not tolerate. So, um, I just took a lot of conversation, but I think communication was definitely something that took us a while to work through.

SAM CASTLE: Yeah, because we're both. We're very, very both strong-willed independent individuals. And for me, I also had to break down what it meant for me to be a husband and a man. So that played a role in it too. And I got to be able to define what that looks like for me. which for me was being vulnerable. It was expressing my emotions in a more healthier manner. Because before I would express my emotions or I would get angry and I would yell and scream, but I knew where that was coming from. But communication has been a huge piece in our marriage and also being able for us to define what we want our marriage to look like. Because we're okay with not looking like how everyone else looks like. We're okay with our own rules and what each one of us does.

VANESSA CASTLE: And speaking of roles, you know, there's always these stereotypical gender roles, like, oh, you know, the man is supposed to take care of the oil changes in the car and mow the lawn. It's funny because I'm actually the one that likes to fix stuff around the house. Yep.

SAM CASTLE: I'm not getting my hands dirty for nothing.

VANESSA CASTLE: The power drill in the garage is mine. It is, who writes? But, you know, it's fun to kind of play around with that because, you know, it's amazing when you have conversations with other couples, with other people, and you learn how different, you know, everyone does things. And I think it's really important before you even get married to have conversations about expectations.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yes.

VANESSA CASTLE: Because, you know, you can get lost in your head, you know, in a relationship with someone and it's going a certain way because maybe you don't live together yet. And then, then all of a sudden someone says, hey, let's move in. And you haven't had that conversation about expectations. And then all of a sudden you move in together and you're miserable. So yeah, having those conversations about expectations and setting boundaries with certain things, you know, you can kind of work out the little details later, but you really need to know what your partner expects from you.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. And being honest.

VANESSA CASTLE: Yes.

SAM CASTLE: Honesty. Yeah, for sure. Open and honest. Yeah. I would even throw in before we even got married, we went to couples therapy and we were able to work through a lot of stuff individually and together. So that played a huge part when we did the next step.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah, I think every couple should go to couples therapy.

VANESSA CASTLE: Yeah. Yeah. There's there's a concept, you know, that you hear about people saying, you know, oh, yeah, my my partner or my wife or my husband is, that's where my joy is. But really, you have to have your own joy first, and then you come together. This person adds to your joy. So if you are not happy with yourself, prior to getting married or even talking about marriage, those things need to be worked through first. Because if you have not dealt with pain that you've had from 10 years ago from an ex or whatever happened in that relationship, it's going to continue to carry you. And then it's just going to keep creating problems and you're going to go through the same patterns that you've been through your whole life.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yep. Yep. Absolutely. 100% agree with that. So looking forward, Sam, How do you or how do you hope to see like the coaching industry evolve in terms of both inclusivity and awareness of LGBTQ plus issues? And what role do you hope to play in that evolution?

SAM CASTLE: My hope is that other coaches want to be educated about the community. That's my hope. I feel like we're heading in that direction. Yeah. Yeah, I'm definitely hopeful. I like to, I like, and that's where, that's the space I like to live is in the hope and the joy and the positivity because That's what's going to push us forward. And I'm seeing that now, even being involved in the all black trans man cohort, which involves other coaches, advocates or whatnot. I feel like we're going into the right direction of inclusion. Yeah. So don't be fooled with what you see in the media. The media has a way of being divisive. Yes, spreading misinformation. And so I would just encourage anyone who's listening is don't let the media be your teacher.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: And be selective about where you're getting your content from, for God's sake.

SAM CASTLE: Be selective, do your research. Don't just take everything at face value. Like really do your homework. And like I said, Google is your friend. We are becoming so more advanced than what we are before. So there's no reason to stay in the ignorance. And at the end of the day, it's a choice. Now you're making a choice. So, yeah.

VANESSA CASTLE: Yeah, absolutely.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: And Vanessa, you want to add anything to that?

VANESSA CASTLE: Um, I would really just hope to see that not only are we involving, um, the life coaches, but I'd really like to see more of our behavioral health professionals being involved in the LGBTQ plus community activities. Um, you know, My, the company that I work for, you know, we have a booth that we set up at one of the local prides every year. And last year, I was able to go. And it's just amazing, you know, to talk to people that stop by and they ask about the services we offer. And there's, you know, a lot of people don't know, they don't even know what's available for them. But The hard part that I struggle with is that when I have patients who have private insurance and I call the insurance company looking for either an LGBTQ plus knowledgeable therapist, or if they ask if they have any that identify as LGBTQ plus, and they're telling me, no, we don't have any clinician. in our network that specialize in this. And it's just really disappointing to me that we're in 2024 and we still don't have the best to care. So that's important. I really would like to see us build a network of clinicians that can take any insurance and can see any patient from anywhere and be able to support our community in a way that really provides the services and the help that they need, because it starts with your mind. You have to work through your pain and the trauma to get to a place where you can start feeling better.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah, yeah, I agree. That was a great answer. So my last question to both of you is what are your goals and aspirations personally and professionally and for you two as a couple? And either one of you can go first.

VANESSA CASTLE: You go first. Okay. Life first. Personally, right now, like I said, I am an associate social worker at the moment, so I have to do two years working full time for my clinical supervision, and then I can take my state licensing exam to be a licensed social worker. And then as I get older, I think eventually I would go out on my own and do therapy and business for self. But I'm also currently, I'm in a doctorate program and I graduate in December. So I'm working on that so I can eventually be Dr. Castle. So, yeah, I definitely am going to stay in behavioral health. I've always had a passion for helping people. And I kind of like Sam was saying earlier, I didn't really know what direction to go with it. But I think the more that I work with my patients, I can kind of see what my niche is and, you know, what I really enjoy doing the most. So I know I will be always in behavioral health, but I'd like to see that evolve, too, and kind of see how I can mesh together with Sam's coaching.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: OK. All right, and for you two as a couple, what are your goals, Vanessa?

VANESSA CASTLE: As a couple, we love to travel. Yes. So we get that, the travel bug bites us every year and we are like, where are we going? So we would really love to travel. We want to see a few other countries. We're trying to do Costa Rica next year and see if we can make that happen. But I'd love to go to Bali or Japan and just see something new. I love culture. I love, you know, seeing traditions and the music and the festivals and the food. So I'm just excited. Yeah. But I think also, more interpersonally, just really working on our growth together. It's important for us to grow independently, but in order for us to move forward as a couple and be able to stay strong, we have to grow together, too.

SAM CASTLE: Okay. Mic drop. Well, let's see my individual goals. So I will be returning to school in August to pursue my master's also in social work. I definitely work with the LGBT, specifically trans community around trauma and healing. As far as coaching, I see, you know, be you, do you being global known throughout the world. That's my motto. That's my mantra. That's something that I You know, I've had to remind myself every day, be you, do you. You don't need permission. I just want to share the healing, the healing journey, you know, joy, purpose, like life is so much more than our identities and all of the labels and all the boxes we put ourselves in. So I want to be able to pass on the healing so that generations to come can pass on the healing. You know, um, we've dealt with a lot of generational trauma and it's time to, it's time to move forward and really, and really heal, really heal. Yeah. That's what God wants us to do. Create heaven on earth here, here and now. So, um, as a couple, like she said, I feel like it's necessary for us to continue to grow together and individually. We definitely want to do more traveling. We've talked about moving possibly to Atlanta. That's still that's still a thing. We currently take care of my father. So, yeah, we're just trying to navigate what that looks like. But yeah, we're going to just keep living, keep living, keep growing and keep loving, keep loving each other for sure.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Listen, if we can pass on trauma, we can certainly pass on healing generationally. So. Right. I gotta ask, any plans for children to grow your family?

SAM CASTLE: Oh, absolutely not.

VANESSA CASTLE: We have decided that we are not going to have kids. We do have two little fur babies. Our dogs are our kids.

SAM CASTLE: Um, and I have twin, uh, I have twin nephews and a niece, so, you know, I can always go pick them up in your time.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: That's right. And listen, you can put them right on back.

SAM CASTLE: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we. In, in, in our earlier years, we, we thought about it, but you know, we, we want to travel and I feel like giving back kind of, kind of makes up for that. Just given being able to give back to people in our own.

VANESSA CASTLE: I'm connected. I've worked with one of the foster, excuse me, one of the foster homes. It's a children's home out near my job. And I've talked with them a few different times, just getting information about fostering. So it's possible that eventually we might start, there's quite a few LGBTQ kids that end up in foster care, whether their parents have just completely disowned them, or they're just in really tough situations with family. And I And they need help too. So we have talked about fostering LGBTQ plus kids. Right.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah. I can see that. I can see you guys doing that.

SAM CASTLE: But right now I love Ken. I love not having gray hair.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: I am not mad. I had two adult children and three grandchildren and they're, you know, they're a lot of work. They're a lot of work. And I am super duper glad that like my kids are grown and I can kind of do what I want. Like the grands I get when I want to spoil them and I give them back. So listen, Sam, Vanessa, we're at the end of our formal part of our conversation, but I just, I really, really wanted to take a minute to thank you both for forgiving me your time, but more importantly, forgiving me and my listeners, your authenticity, your honesty, just being you. I appreciate it more than you know. And my hope is that whoever hears this is empowered, impacted to live their lives authentically as well. So thank you. You're welcome.

VANESSA CASTLE: Thank you.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: All right. So now we get to do the fun stuff. We get to play 10 Kandid Questions. These questions are like super duper random. Some of them are either or some of them require like a little more fleshed out answer. And there's only one rule and you have to answer them kandidly. So for each question, I'll need an answer from Sam and Vanessa. You ready?

VANESSA CASTLE: Ready.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: All right. This is going to be an easy one for Sam. Question number one. What's a favorite quote or mantra that you live by?

SAM CASTLE: Be you, do you. You don't need permission to be who you are.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: I put that there on purpose, because I knew that's what you were going to say. And Vanessa?

VANESSA CASTLE: I think one of my favorite quotes is always, do or do not. There is no try. Oh, OK, Yoda. Yoda. Yes.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: All right. Question number two, handshakes or hugs? Hugs. Almost literally said that together. Yeah. All right. Question number three. If you could be remembered for one thing, what would it be?

VANESSA CASTLE: I would say that I brought love, light, and joy to the world.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Okay. And Sam?

SAM CASTLE: I'd say love and joy for sure, but standing in truth and not giving a damn what people think or say.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Okay. I love that too. Question number four. What is your favorite curse word?

null: Shit.

SPEAKER_00: Wait, both of y'all is bullshit.

VANESSA CASTLE: Yeah, I think so. You know, it's pretty common. You stub your toe, you smack your arm on something.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. That's so true. Okay. Number five. What's the most valuable lesson you've learned from a mistake or failure in your life?

VANESSA CASTLE: That's a good one. Stick to your boundaries.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Hmm.

VANESSA CASTLE: There's been a lot of times where I have created a boundary or said, okay, I'm not going to do that again. And then I did it again. And then whatever I experienced was maybe even worse than the last time. So to just stick to my boundaries and listen to my gut and said, no, don't do that. I wouldn't have had to go through it.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Got it. And Sam?

SAM CASTLE: I would say tell the truth. Okay. Tell the truth, no matter how uncomfortable it is.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: I like both of those. All right. Question number six, dogs or cats?

VANESSA CASTLE: Dogs.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yes, I'm a dog person too. All right. Number seven, if you had the undivided attention of the entire world for five minutes, what would you say?

SAM CASTLE: Be kind. We're all going to leave out of here anyway. Okay. No, Sarah, I mean, because what are we truly arguing about?

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Right. Yeah, I agree.

VANESSA CASTLE: It's like telling people to love thy neighbor, but actually mean it. Yeah. And actually do it.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah. Yeah, I like it. All right. Question number eight. Text messages or phone calls? Phone call.

SAM CASTLE: I'm a little screwed. Really?

VANESSA CASTLE: Both of you? I don't mind text messages. Like, if I'm at work and, you know, it's easier for me to reply back to something in a text. But if it's the weekend, just call me.

SAM CASTLE: I feel like text messages are so impersonal.

VANESSA CASTLE: It can be. And then it's communication sometimes.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Oh, yeah.

VANESSA CASTLE: From text.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah. I'm a texter and I know that words without context can be like, no, that's not what I said. Okay.

VANESSA CASTLE: Let me just call you. You may start off texting, but there's going to be some point where someone's going to be like, well, so you'll get offended or say something. And then you were like, wrong. Now I have to call you.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yep. Yep. Yeah. Agreed. Question number nine. What's one thing you believe everyone should experience in their lifetime?

VANESSA CASTLE: I think everything that I can think about all boils down to love.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah.

VANESSA CASTLE: If you talk about acceptance, okay, that means love. If you talk about happy, that's, I mean, not necessarily always love, but Yeah, I think love in some form is important.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah.

SAM CASTLE: Sam? What's one thing someone should experience at least one time?

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: One thing you believe everyone should experience in their lifetime.

SAM CASTLE: Get out, like get out of the environment you were born in. I know a lot of people who have never been outside of their own neighborhood. I would say get out and enjoy life. because you just have a big world, y'all. Yeah, it is. And stop saying what is not for you. You don't know what's for you until you get out there and try. Like we put ourselves in boxes. It's just insane.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. All right. And last question, and this is the same for all my guests. How can my listeners connect with you, Sam, or you, Vanessa, your coaching business, et cetera, your social, your podcast?

SAM CASTLE: I'm on Instagram, but not as much, but you can find me on Instagram at BUDU underscore number one. Uh, it's easier to reach out to me on Facebook because that's where I am the most. So my Facebook is Sam Castle. My coaching website is beyoudoyoucoaching.com. I'm all things be you do you, so it's beyoudoyoucoaching.com. My website is currently under construction because I'm doing some new things with it. But the easiest way I would say is shoot me a DM on Facebook if you want to get in touch, and we can go from there.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: OK, awesome. And Vanessa, if you want to give yours?

VANESSA CASTLE: Um, I am not doing, um, personal therapy at this time. Um, it's just through my work. Um, I have to wait till I'm before I can do any of that, but if anyone has questions or they just want support from a spouse's perspective, um, you can always send a message to Sam or you can message me on Facebook. My Facebook is just Vanessa Castle. Um, and you can send a message and I can always reply there too.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Okay, awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you again For this time for this chat just for being who you two are I see you guys on facebook all the time and i'm like, oh, they're so cute You know, I'm always, I'm a sap, so love is like my jam. And I think that when you can find somebody that loves you for you, you need to hold on to that. And that comes through whenever I see you guys together. So thank you for your time and for sharing your stories with me.

VANESSA CASTLE: Thank you so much for having us. We appreciate it.

SAM CASTLE: Yeah, it's so good to catch up.

KANDIDLY KRISTIN: Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. And guys, listen, Sam and Vanessa's contact info, the link to the Be You Do You podcast, his socials will all be in the show notes. So you can just click it and go and check it out. And I'd like to ask you guys to please not forget to visit my little website at www.thekandidshop.com. That's kandid with a K. Listen to an episode or 10, drop me a review and share the show with your friends, please. And until next time, I want everyone out there to keep it safe, keep it healthy and keep it kandid.