The Gist of Bid-Whist: A Kandid Chat on the Cultural History of Bid Whist with Author Lamont Jones

Kandidly Kristin: Hey, hey, hey, Podcast Nation, it is your girl, Kandidly Kristin, and this is The Kandid Shop, your number one destination for kandid conversations. If you're new to my show, welcome. If you're a returning listener, welcome back, and thanks for your support. So I am super duper excited to be having a kandid chat with boxing business attorney and author of the critically acclaimed book, The Gist of Bidwist, the culturally rich card game from Black America, Mr. Lamont Jones. So help me welcome Lamont to the kandid shot. Welcome, welcome, welcome Lamont to the kandid  shop. 

Lamont Jones: Hey, Kristin, I'm thrilled to be with you here in The Kandid Shop! 

Kandidly Kristin: I am so happy to have you. So listen, growing up, I kind of sort of knew what, bidwist was, but it seemed to me as a youngster to be a lack of a better word, an old folks game. And I never really learned it or understood it. So I'm really excited to have this chat because I know it's a popular game.

Lamont Jones: No question. No question. No question. I'll tell you this. You were ahead of me, though, if you heard of it when you were a kid, because I never heard of the game until law school, until I went to law school. And not only that, I probably played for about, I don't know, maybe a decade. You know, you just said when you when you started mentioning bid was you said biz, right? A lot of people do that. So I had been playing for about a decade before I found out the actual name of the game. Because when people play, like, you know, we, we'd say, Hey, you want to play some bid? You want to play some bid? And you hear people say stuff like biz whiz, biz whiz, whatever. So yeah, it was about, I played for about a decade before I knew the formal name of the game is actually bid twist.

Kandidly Kristin: Big twist, yep. And you know what? I was raised by a grandmother, which is probably why I heard it. Because I was an old people, not old people, Lord have mercy. Old, you know, the older crowd was who I was around. So, you know, that's what they played. And I just was like, I don't want to play that. You know, spades and all that kind of stuff.

Lamont Jones: I'm sorry, man, you're sparking such thoughts and memories. But, you know, when I went on my first date with the woman who's now my wife, I thought it was going pretty well. So I asked her, hey, you know, you play Beardwist? And she said, no. She's like, that's an old person's game. Why would I play Beardwist like that? Right. I'm thinking like this is going nowhere. And then she said, you know, she said, my daddy will sit there and play Beardwist for hours. And I was like, is that right? You know, we might have something we're talking about here.

Kandidly Kristin: Okay. Well, that's good. See you and the daddy had something in common that might've got you in a little bit. No doubt. No doubt. No doubt. So before we get started talking about this, uh, amazing game, uh, can you just give me and my listeners a little bit of your background? And the second part of that was going to be when or how you learned about Bitwiz, but you kind of answered that. So just tell us a little bit about who Lamont Jones is.

Lamont Jones: I am a boxing business attorney in my day job. I work with Al Hayman's Premier Boxing Champions platform. The platform manages top boxers, champions, contenders, prospects, and we put on events. Our partner is Amazon Prime, so you might've seen a recent show, PBC on Prime. We've got a show coming up May 4, Premier Boxing Champions on Prime. But yeah, that's that's my day job. But the reason, you know, we're chatting is because I'm a card game enthusiast. And, you know, I wrote the Gist of Bidwhist because I believe that card games connect people. And I believe that the rich story of Bidwhist deserves to be widely known. So that's kind of my mission, which is to share this game so that, you know, folks like us no longer believe that it's just a game for older black people.

Kandidly Kristin: Gotcha. That's too funny. All right. So for those who are going to hear this, who, like me, are completely unfamiliar with this game, tell me a little bit about it. Like, is it similar to Spades, Hearts, Bridge, or other, and I'm doing air quotes, trick-taking games. But first, before you tell me a little bit about Bidwist, I need to understand what a trick-taking game is.

Lamont Jones: Yeah, let's, let's talk about it. So I would, I would say that first and foremost, bidwest is the world's greatest card game. It's the world's coolest card game. It's the ultimate card game. Um, and it became a touchstone in black and black American community and culture, you know, sparking joy and sparking spirited competition from coast to coast. Uh, but to, to drill down on your question, I would say that there are three components to this game. Uh, and some of this will sound familiar to people who play spades and play hearts and play, you know, Euchre and bridge and other games. Uh, first and foremost, it's a partnership game. Uh, so that's going to distinguish it from, for example, blackjack where you're playing against the dealer. Okay. That distinguishes it from poker where you're playing against each of the other players at the table. So it's a partnership game. You have a partner and you and your partner compete against another partnership. Secondly, as you mentioned, Kristin, it is a trick taking game. And what that means is, you know, the four players are sitting around the table. There will come a point in time when each of the four players will lay a card in the middle of the table. They'll play a card. So there'll be a pile of four cards right there in the table. And whoever has played the best card for that particular round will win that little pile. That pile is called a trick. So the objective of this game and similar games is to take those tricks. And thirdly, before the trick taking action starts, there's a conversation and both the partnerships basically sort of wager how many of the 13 available tricks, you know, their partnership is going to win in the upcoming round. So so, yeah, it's a partnership game. It's a trick taking game. And there's that conversation where you make the wager before the trick taking action starts. And that conversation lends a lot of the tension, a lot of the the strategic entry to the game.

Kandidly Kristin: OK, so very much like spades, where we call them books, you know, the four cards become a book and a partnership wins. And before the game, you bid on how many books you think you and your partner can get. So it's very similar to that.

Lamont Jones: Very similar, and I should point out that most Bid Whisk players also call that pile a book rather than a trick, right? So you hear the same terminology in Bid Whisk. So absolutely, there are some similarities in the game, in the two games. Maybe a bit later, we might get into some of the differences between the games.

Kandidly Kristin: Yeah, it doesn't have to be later. It needs to be right, right now. What are the differences?

Lamont Jones: Well, I tell you what first comes to mind for me is this in, in spades, you know, your partnership might say, Hey, we're going to make four books this round. Right. And the other partnership might say, Hey, we're going to make six books this round. And you know what? You can both be right. Right. There are 13 available books, you know, so once I can win four, once I can win six, both teams can be successful. It doesn't work like that in Bitwist, right? For one team to succeed in making whatever they're trying to make, you know, the other team has to fail. So there's, there's a little bit more tension right there from the beginning. But beyond that. I'd say that the big difference between the games is what I'd like to call the knockout factor. Right. Um, and I, I like to explain it this way in, in, in, in bid West. Well, here, here, let me go back. Let me go here. Let's think about tennis for a second, right? In tennis, you win a certain number of points, but you can only win the game on game point. Right. And in the same way, you can only win a set after you've accumulated enough games and then enough points in a particular game so that it's now set point. If you win on this point, you can win the set and the same thing goes for the mat. Right. But in bid West, it's a little bit like boxing in this way, in this, in the, in the sense that. It doesn't matter what the score is. It doesn't matter whether you're ahead or whether you're behind on any particular hand, right? Under the right circumstances, either team can win the game on that particular hand, like a knockout in boxing, right? It doesn't matter if you're behind or ahead, if you land that right punch. the right time, you can win by knockout. And BidWist has that knockout factor. And because of that knockout factor, right, that's going to influence, you know, how you bid, that's going to influence how you play, etc. And that adds a lot of tension and intrigue and that sort of thing and wonder and magic to the game, in my view.

Kandidly Kristin: OK, OK. So now instead, you know, you take out a couple cards because you have the Joker and all that. Is it the same in Bidwist?

Lamont Jones: No, you do have the Jokers, but yeah, it gets a little tricky. So let me, let me, let me explain it this way. Right. Cause there, there are 52 cards in a deck. Um, yeah. And in spades, in spades, like you said, you add the two jokers. So you take out to, to make sure that there are 52 cards in the deck and then you divide them so that, you know, uh, each part, each partnership gets 26 of those cards, right? Each player gets 13 of the cards. But what we do in bid whist is a little different. Uh, we don't take out two cards. We do add the joker. So there's 54 cards in the deck, but what we do is we deal, we deal 12 cards to each player. Okay. So each player has 12 cards. So that leaves six cards, six cards are left over. Right. So we deal those six cards down into the middle of the table. That's called the kitty. Okay. And what happens is this, whoever makes the best bid at the beginning of the hand, right. Whoever makes the best bid, you know, that player gets to take those six cards from the kitty. Right. And then select whichever cards from those, you know, the player wants, as long as you put six, six cards back into the kitty at the end of that. So you strengthen your hand, right. You get even stronger with your hand. And now, you know, now you play out the hand that way. So, yeah, so we do use the jokers in Bid Whisk, but we, we, we have that kitty mechanism, which is really sort of the most powerful. strategic part of the game. If you get that, man, I like to say, you know, you can, you can take your hand from mere mortal status to superhero status. So that's why in bid whiz, like I said earlier, like in spades, you know, it's, it's not uncommon for a team to, you know, bid six, bid to win six books or seven books or, or eight, you know, whatever. But in BidWist, you have a partnership saying, hey, I'm going to get 11 of these 13, or I'm going to get 12 of these 13, right? So a lot more tension in that respect.

Kandidly Kristin: Got that. Got the kitty. Now in spades, the goal is to be high spade in each round, right? Or to be the highest card of clubs of whatever ace. And that's how you win the book. What's the goal or the rule of bidwest in that regard? Like what are you, when you're throwing out cards, what are you trying to accomplish? I guess I'm trying to ask.

Lamont Jones: Oh, I'm talking to a real spades player here, aren't I? I love it. I love it. I love it. It's, it's, it's quite similar actually. And this is what I mean in spades, you know, like you said, in every hand, the Trump suit is speed. Right? So, you know, maybe you have the Ace of Hearts and you can win with that or the King of Hearts or the Ace of Diamonds. But if a spade is played in that round, right, the spade is going to trump it. It's going to cut it. Okay? Yeah. What happens in bid whist is during that conversation before the action starts, you know, when you say, hey, I'm going to win 11 of these 13 tricks or 10 of these 13 tricks, If you submit the best bid, you also get to stipulate what the Trump suits going to be. So if I have a hand where I have a lot of hearts, right, I'll say, okay, I'm going to win 11 tricks. but the Trump suit here is going to be hearts. So that way, you know, my, my hearts have more power. So a key difference then between spades and bid whist is that in bid whist, you know, the Trump suit changes from hand to hand depending on who has submitted the best bid. Right. And then the most, the most diabolical part of the game is the fact that a player might win the auction and say, you know what, there's no Trump suit this hand, you know, not spades, not hearts, not clubs, no Trump suit, right? And I say that's diabolical because, you know, there are extra penalties associated with that. There are extra bonuses associated with that. We get into all of that in the Just a Bid Whist and explain just how it works. But, you know, people say that Bid Whist is like a graduate level of spades. We've just, you and I, Kristin, have just discussed some of the reasons why, because of the, you know, the changing Trump suits, the no Trump option, and there Like I say, we get into all of it in the Just a Bit list.

Kandidly Kristin: All right. That's right, y'all. Y'all got to get the book to learn how to play the game. We're not going to do that here, although I want to. Shifting a little bit to the book. Bidwist and other card games, but we're talking about Bidwist specifically now, has a rich cultural history, particularly with African-American communities. And the cards on the cover of your book, the art, the cards feature Pullman porters. So talk to me about the significance of that to the book and the game.

Lamont Jones: Yeah, I think the game's significance to black American communities goes back to how it was introduced. You know, poker and craps were injected into the nation's bloodstream through the river, the gambling boats on the Mississippi River. Right. But in contrast, you know, bid was sort of roared onto the scene through the railways. And I think the game's popularity can be traced to a singular group of men, you alluded to them, the Pullman Porters. So the Pullman Porters were sort of central figures in American life in the early part of the 20th century. They were respected figures in Black communities because they had one of the one of the only jobs that could lead to, you know, a middle class existence. And in their jobs, they weren't tethered to a particular factory, a particular town for their jobs. You know, they travel throughout the country. And on their travels, they helped provide information that helped fuel the great migration. You know, they'd say, hey, if you come into Kansas City and you're looking for a job, you might want to talk to this person. Or if you're in Oakland and you're looking for a place to live, you know, you might want to look here. You know, they distributed the black newspapers of the day on their journeys, the Chicago Defender, the Pittsburgh Courier, that sort of thing. And they were also cultural connectors. You know, they would they would say, hey, you know, we heard about this great blues record or this great blues artist down south, or there's this bad jazz cat out of Chicago or New York that you need to know about. And people respected, you know, what what they had to say about culture. And one of the offerings they shared was their game. bid whist. You know, they played it so much it was called the porter's game. And you might envision a situation in New York City or in Kansas City or in Chicago, where, you know, you might have a hundred or two hundred or more porters waiting overnight, you know, for their respective trips the next day. But when they got together, they they played bid whist. And you can imagine, you know, the talking and the and the competition and the revelry as they as they got together to do that. But because the porters were such respected figures throughout the country, their game took hold in communities across the country. It eventually, you know, was picked up by members of the military and became popular in military communities. So the Pullman Porters, the research shows, are a big part of the reason why bid whist became what some people call the national black pastime.

Kandidly Kristin: That's so interesting. I love the cover art. So that's really interesting and important, but also a great segue into how BidWist and other card games connect people in communities. Like it's a card game, it's a competition, but it's also a social activity. So talk to me a little bit about the social aspects of the game and its importance within communities, specifically African-American communities.

Lamont Jones: Yeah, you know, I think it became important for me to research and write this book when I began to learn that that, you know, bid whist is not just about the competition and the smack talk. It's really helped to, you know, foster connections and build bonds. And that started becoming clear for me, you know, in a couple of ways, like I went to law school on the East Coast. Um, and that's where I was first exposed to, uh, to bid West. Uh, but later, you know, a few years later, I moved out to California and I met people there. I remember meeting a fella, you know, and asking him if he'd heard of this card game bid West. And he was like, you know, he jabbed his finger in my chest. He was like, I went to nom because of a bid West. Right. And he explained that, uh, you know, he had been, uh, exempt from the draft because he was a college student. But he spent so much time in the student in playing bid with that is his grades dipped. And, you know, he was he was subject to the draft. But that was like that was eye opening for me because I was like, hold up. They play this game on the East Coast. You know, people play in Texas. They play on the West Coast. You know, this sort of a coast to coast phenomenon. Right. This was before I learned about the Pullman Porter's role in it. And then in my own life, there was a time when my daughter was about seven years old, her mom and I had divorced, and my daughter, Aaliyah, was talking to a therapist. And she told the therapist that she was sad and angry and upset about her new life. The therapist asked her, have you told anybody about this? And Aaliyah says, I've told my daddy. Well, why'd you tell him? And Aaliyah, in her eight-year-old way, says, well, when I'm with my daddy, you know, we spend a lot of time playing cards. And when you're sitting there playing cards, you got to talk about something. Right. Yeah. When I when I heard about that exchange, it again reinforced for me the fact that, you know, playing this game is a wonderful vehicle for conversation and connection. And I've found that to be true. I talk with people across the country. Because of its sort of mixture of intense strategy and witty banter and laughter, it lends itself to forming these kinds of bonds.

Kandidly Kristin: Yes, yes, I agree. There's nothing like sitting around a card table, I tell you.

Lamont Jones: So I like it. I have to ask. I hope I'm I'm not violating protocol here, but it sounds like you play some cards. What's your what's your spades or card game origin story, if I may?

Kandidly Kristin: Family, you know, cookout, like I said, I was raised by my grandmother. So there was a lot of bridge and this bid whist thing, dominoes, and of course spades. So, you know, spades can be a little cutthroat, you know, like you can get cussed all the way out if you bid bad or play bad or cut and then you throw the card out and you're like you reneged or, you know, so I used to just sit and watch. because I didn't want to sit down to the table until I had a real good understanding of the game. And I still suck at bidding, like I do.

Lamont Jones: So there came a time when you had sat and you'd watched and you felt comfortable playing spades. It sounds like that did not happen with respect to bid whist, or am I misreading this?

Kandidly Kristin: No, no. It was spades for me. midwistic, because like the older people were playing that, the young folk were playing spade. So that's where I kind of gravitated to, to spade. The midwist was just, again, the old people were playing that. I don't want to

Lamont Jones: And in many ways, that's still, you know, too often the case. But the fact is, if, you know, if younger folk don't pick up the game, then, you know, it's looking at going off that demographic cliff and, you know, we can't have that happen. And what I found is that, you know, BidWist is not particularly well taught, right? And maybe not even Spades for that matter, but people kind of assume that, look, either you got it or you don't, right? Either you can play or you can't play. And I don't think that's the case. That's a big part of the reason why I wrote to Just a Bit Wisp. In fact, when I left law school, I moved to a place where I didn't know anybody and I didn't have a Bit Wisp community. So I wasn't able to continue playing Bit Wisp. And man, we had played a lot in law school. There were four of us. Uh, if there were three of us ready to play and the fourth guy was in class or in the library, we would go get him. Right. So that we can conduct our, our bid was business. Uh, but, but, but when I moved, you know, I wasn't able to play. I would look at the newspapers each day and you I'd see some, some, some sort of card game challenge in the newspaper. And I wasn't quite sure what it was, but I, I learned that it was about bridge. Okay. So eventually I went to a bridge club and started taking bridge lessons. Um, and as I, as I took the bridge lessons, a couple of things occurred to me. One was, and this game is very similar to bid West in a lot of ways, right? So a lot of the stuff that had happened at the bid was table was kind of happening at the bridge table, but number two, and maybe more importantly, I thought, man, they're teaching this bridge in a step-by-step fashion. It's very unintimidating, you know. What if Beardwist could be taught like this, right? If we could teach Beardwist in this sort of structured, unintimidating way, then maybe we can bring more people to the table. Maybe it won't just be, you know, for older folks. So yeah, that was a spark that ultimately led to my, you know, writing to Just a Beardwist.

Kandidly Kristin: Okay. And that's important because I agree that spades is not well taught. Like you just kind of have, you sit and watch, you don't want to ask questions because people are so, so serious about it. And, um, and people play different ways, like big joker, little joker, deuce of diamonds as high cards versus not, you know, and it's like, okay, wait, Yeah, joker, joker, juice. Right, right, right. You need to write one for speed, but bid whiz is a good start because you are correct that if it's not handed down and taught to a younger generation, then it is going to go away.

Lamont Jones: No doubt. And listen, I get it because there's so few of us really who play. So when we get together, we want to play, right? We're not trying to go all the time it might take to teach. We're trying to play. We're trying to compete. We're trying to talk that smack, right? So I definitely get it. I was at a gathering here not long ago, and you've heard of the place, Piscataway. Last, I guess it was, you know, a week or so ago, but my buddy, my law school buddy who introduced me to Bidwist, he says he taught me Bidwist. I'll give him credit for introducing me. I'm not going to say he taught me, but his fraternity, uh the the alphas had a you know had a had a get-together in piscataway and there were people there playing you know spades and and other games but there was a contingent there playing bid whist so it was fun to get there and compete and and throw down and uh you know again not that many of us were were trying to bring people along and teach them as we were playing uh i happened to get a lot of joy from that so i was able to You know, I think I was able to teach, you know, a few people that evening, but, uh, but yeah, we, we, we, we did have a, uh, uh, we did have fun competing and throwing down as well.

Kandidly Kristin: Good, good, good. That's so important. And just the connection and stuff is super duper important to like in a nice friendly setting, competitive, but friendly, not cut through, you know, and it just a way to connect and talk and dish dirt and all that kind of stuff. It's awesome.

Lamont Jones: Not to mention, you know, they had the DJ with the good music, you know, people had brought great food. So yeah, it was absolutely a party. So those settings, you know, add to the specialness. Specialness, easy for me to say. Specialness of the game.

Kandidly Kristin: Got it, got it. So listen Lamont, who really plays Bidwist, like besides the old folks, like for real. And you, who plays Bidwist? Like give me some names, some people that the people might know.

Lamont Jones: Ah, I feel you. So my, I have, I've not yet played with this brother, but my understanding is that Magic Johnson is a serious Bidwist player, right? Uh, uh, I've seen on, I've seen on Twitter, you know, Magic playing with his partner, Michael Jordan. Right. So I understand that these guys are serious bid whiz players. When we were in law school, we learned that Justice Thurgood Marshall had been a serious bid whiz player. So, you know, if somebody had the nerve to say to us that we were spending too much time around the table, we were like, hey, we're just trying to follow in the footsteps of the great Justice Thurgood Marshall. Right. That's right. So, you know, I've met Sheila Johnson, the hotel magnate. She's a bid whiz player. So yeah, there are some luminaries who play. Not so long ago, I was at an event in Chicago, and the Reverend Jesse Jackson was getting ready to speak. And I probably shouldn't have been bothering him, you know, right before his speech, but I went up to him and I said, I said, hey, word on the street is that you are a pretty good bid whiz player. And he sort of looked out into the distance and there was some silence. And then he said it, you know, real, real soberly. He said, I lost a game of bid whiz once. I was six. He said I was six and I lost because I was six. Right. So, uh, he, he, uh, he talks his smack about bid whiz.

Kandidly Kristin: Okay. So there's some folks out there that play play.

Lamont Jones: Yeah, for real. I've heard, I've heard scuttlebutt that maybe President Obama plays, right? So I've been, I've been researching this and trying to track it down. I saw an article in the Washington Post, you know, way back in 2009 that says, hey, when he's, when he's out in Hawaii, he plays bid whist with his family. Um, and I've, I've talked with a few folks, uh, you know, I've talked with a couple of guys who played cards with them, but they say, Hey, we played hard. So we played spades. Neither, neither guy said, you know, we played bid whist. I had a, I have a buddy, uh, Kobe a Connor out in Los Angeles. He's an attorney. And, uh, he serves on the board of an, of an organization that hosted president Barack Obama to speak. So I knew that he'd get a chance to talk with the president. So I said, you got to ask him whether he plays bid whist. Right. So Colbier reports that the president says, Bidwist, spades, hearts, you know, pick your poison, you know, so, so, so, so that suggested maybe he plays, uh, but when, uh, you know, when his book came out, I'd heard this story that, uh, that, you know, while they were conducting the Osama bin Laden read in order to avoid distracting people in the situation room, he would sometimes, you know, move away to a private area and play cards with his aides. Right. So I was like, I wonder whether he was playing bidwist. So when his book came out, I said, I'm going to read enough of this book. to find out whether he played the at-risk, right? The book was 700 pages long, so I wasn't trying to commit to read the whole thing. But I started reading, started reading, started reading. Man, he told the story about playing cards during the raid, but he told that story on page 693. So I wound up reading the whole book anyway. And when I got there, Kristin, you'll be glad to know that on that occasion at least, he was playing spades. So I, I still, I still, uh, I'm holding out hope that maybe, uh, maybe he's a bid whist player. Uh, but so far I haven't found any solid documentation of it.

Kandidly Kristin: Gotcha. I could see him being a card player and of all kinds of card games. And the problem probably is that he can't find enough other people that play bid whist. You know what I'm saying?

Lamont Jones: to play with. That could be that. That could be that. I could also imagine, you know, I could imagine him talking his smack too.

Kandidly Kristin: Okay, for sure. That's my, uh, that's my, uh, Zodiac twin. We share a birth that different years, but same, same month and day. So yeah, that's my, that's my Leo twin.

Lamont Jones: I got you. I got you. Yeah. You wouldn't, you wouldn't be able to compete with him on the smack talk. Right.

Kandidly Kristin: Cause you know, there's a certain, I'm kind of good at that. I'm probably better Better at that than playing the game. I hear you.

Lamont Jones: I hear you. I'd say you probably have to get him with the cards even more than you get him with the smack talk.

Kandidly Kristin: Yeah, he's he's a he's a order like very few are. So, yeah, I agree with that. So listen, I've heard that you say that bid whist is more challenging than chess.

Lamont Jones: How so? Yeah, I believe that. I believe that. Well, you know, first of all, don't take my word for it, right? The research shows that, that, uh, that, you know, the computers with, with the artificial intelligence, uh, they beat the best chess players. They've been doing that for, you know, 30 years or whatever. Right. But they can't beat the best players of bridge, for example. And there are a couple reasons for this. First, with respect to chess, all the information is available. All the pieces are on the board. So with the computers, it's just like brute computational strength. It can run the numbers fast and do the calculations. you know, do what they need to do. But in card games like Bridge, like Bidwist, some of that information is hidden. You know, you can't see the other cards. You don't know whether your partner has the cards or whether your opponents have the card. And then beyond that, there's the fact that In card games, you have to deal with sort of uniquely human capabilities that the computers haven't mastered. So there's bluffing, there's deceit, there's outright lying, right? So that's, you know, that's why I like to say that the bid-wist is sort of a hybrid of bridge and poker, because, you know, the bluffing and that element of the game is very important. And again, the computers haven't mastered that yet. So I think that you know, the top card games are more challenging than chess. And I closed the loop on it in the gist of BidWist by marshalling the evidence from top bridge players that suggests that BidWist is even more complicated than bridge. Right. And I say that not to intimidate potential players or new players, not to scare them away, because The reason I think BidWist ought to be the 21st century standard bearer, you know, for this ancient tradition of trick taking games is because BidWist is actually more accessible than Brid, right? You can, you can get in, get into the car playing action. You can learn the game quicker. You know, you don't have to do what I did and go to the bridge club and take lessons for eight weeks just in order to become a beginner at bridge. Right. So, yeah. So so Bitwist offers a lot of the card playing intrigue, maybe even more card playing intrigue without the steep learning curve. So I think that, you know. Bidwist ought to be the game that helps us revitalize this trump card game tradition. I'm proud that I'm working with bicycle playing cards to help people discover and rediscover the joy of playing cards and games like Bidwist.

Kandidly Kristin: Nice. Well, this book is going to go a long way to do that. It is my sincere hope that it does. But my last question to you is, What impact do you envision or hope that your book has on the folks who will read it?

Lamont Jones: Well, a couple of things, you know, I'm optimistic that BidWist is going to reclaim a place of cultural prominence, right? So I want to see BidWist plotlines in movies and televisions. You know, I'm ready for somebody to write the next BidWist book that's going to have more and even better strategic tips than I've been able to offer, you know, more and better practice hands than I've been able to offer. I want someone to write the great American, the great American BidWist novel I want to see the game played on college campuses and all around, and as we play, I want us to salute the Pullman Porters and the people and the culture that gave us this art form. And, and maybe, maybe most importantly, you know, I want people to build relationships and forge bonds. Like I've been able to forge using the magic of BidWist because I think that's really what makes the game special. So I'm hoping to help, you know, people create their own magic and their own relationships using BidWist.

Kandidly Kristin: Nice. Well, that's an awesome hope, and I hope it too. So, you got anything new in the pipeline? A new book? Uh, some bid whist tournaments happening anywhere?

Lamont Jones: We're gonna, you know, we're gonna go out on the road a bit and talk with people about the game and talk with people about the Just a Bit West. And, you know, as I've been doing this, you know, I've been learning more. I've been learning more about the game. I've been learning more stories. So, you know, who knows? Maybe there'll be a follow up to the Just a Bit West.

Kandidly Kristin: Cool. I look forward to it. I really do. Well, thank you. Thank you for this book. Thank you for the amazing cover art. I love that a lot.

Lamont Jones: Yeah, I'm sorry, Kristin. I have to say thank you for acknowledging that cover art. I'm really proud to, you know, offer this tribute to the Pullman Porters. And I have to shout out young Trotter Alexander from Chicago. He's the artist who made that sketch and conceptualized the cover art. So props to Trotter.

Kandidly Kristin: Yes, Props to you, Charter. It's amazing. It's very simple. It's a card, but its significance is so right there in your face. And even if you're not sure what it is, you're like, I don't know what that is. It's worth a closer look.

Lamont Jones: One other thing, if I may, you know, on the cover, we've got the, you know, the king of spades with the, with the Pullman Porter image, but we also have the two of hearts. Right. And what I'm trying to portray there is that in bid West, you know, sometimes the high cards are more powerful, but sometimes the low cards are more powerful. Right. So it doesn't matter which cards you're dealt. You have the incentive and the opportunity, sometimes even the obligation, to get involved in the action, you know, with your bidding and your play. That, again, is part of what makes bid whist such a fast-paced and special game.

Kandidly Kristin: Yes, indeed. And that can be reflected in life, too, no matter what card you're dealt. You can make it work and you can win. Preach, Kristin. Preach. Oh, Lamont, thank you so much. But listen, we are so not done. We're done with that part. But now we get to the fun stuff for me, and we get to play 10 KandidQuestions. So 10 Candid Questions is just 10 random questions that I pulled off this big list on Google. And some of them are either or. Some of them require a little more thought to answer, but the only rule is you have to answer them kandidly. So you ready? I'm ready. All right. Question number one, and this is the Candid Shop, so feel free to answer it in the word that you want to use. What's your favorite curse word? Motherfucker. Okay. See, you wasn't all timid with it. Like, can I say, yes, you can say it. Mine too. Yeah. We twins on that one. All right. Question number two, handshakes or hugs.

Lamont Jones: You gotta, you gotta go half and half with the, with the folks that you know, you're most fond of. You got, you know, give you a good solid pound and then bring it in tight. That's how we do that. Give me a good, firm, solid pound and bring it in tight. Now, I will say it was important to me to teach my son, Justin, and my daughter, Aaliyah, good, solid, fundamental handshakes for social purposes, for business purposes, et cetera. But when we're going beyond acquaintances to real friends, you get the pound, you get the good, solid, bring it in tight.

Kandidly Kristin: You know, you have to have a pat on the back. Yes, yes, yes. All of that. Yeah. All right. Number three, what is the most valuable lesson you've learned from a mistake or failure in your life? Hmm. Hmm.

Lamont Jones: Well, I'll tell you this. I was an amateur boxer growing up, right? And I started when I was a second grader, 55 pounds. My last fight, I was a junior in college, 147 pounds by then. And between my first and last fight, I had more than 200 amateur bouts, okay? Two fights I remember the most. I was 12 years old. You know, we went from went from Oklahoma. I was in Oklahoma and our region was the the Ozark region, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri. So I won the Junior Olympic State Championship. So I went to the regional competition in St. Louis, Missouri. First time I've seen like the big, tall buildings and all that kind of stuff. And I fought this this fella. I fought this motherfucker named Jimmy White. And he was supposed to be either 12 or 13. Maybe he somehow slipped past the age bracket there. But man, Jimmy White gave me a good thrashing. In amateur boxing, it's three rounds. And if you get three standing eight counts in any round, the fight's over by knockout, right? Uh, Jimmy White gave me six standing eight counts, two in each of the three rounds. It's like just, you know, just enough to, to keep me in there for some beating. So I remember that fight, but you know what, uh, you know, we, we, we came back from that. And two years later, again, in St. Louis, I fought Jimmy White again. Uh, and you know, much different fight, very spirited fight. I do feel like I won, even though I didn't get the decision that time. Uh, you know, but the lesson I, the lesson that I, I got from all of that was, you know, you can, you can get knocked down. You can, you can take a whooping even. Uh, but you can, you can recover and develop and get better and come back strong from that. So, um, yeah, I, I try not to let, uh, try not to let setbacks and knockdowns keep me down. Uh, if I had man, as many people, uh, as said no to the idea of a book about a card game, you know, if I had let that keep me down, we wouldn't be here talking about the just a bit with.

Kandidly Kristin: Amen. Great answer. Thank you. Question number four. Winter or summer?

Lamont Jones: Oh, come on now. Well, I'm going to cheat on this one, Kristin, if you allow me. Fall is my favorite time of year. Isn't fall everybody's favorite time of year? But fall, you get to go back to school, so you get your new clothes. It's football season. The weather's pleasant. Can I say fall rather than summer or winter?

Kandidly Kristin: Yes, you can. Thank you, Paul. All right. Question number five. How would you describe yourself in one word?

Lamont Jones: Hmm. One word.

Kandidly Kristin: Let's see.

Lamont Jones: I would say contributor.

Kandidly Kristin: Hmm. That's a good word. All right, I'll take that. If you were stranded on a desert island and could only bring three things, what would they be?

Lamont Jones: Geez. All right. Well, I better have a container with some water. Okay. Um. And I'm going to interpret the question things as being inanimate objects. So I'm not going to, uh, I'm not going to take this opportunity to say that, you know, I'd want my bride Stacy with me. Right. Right. So I want to contain a water. Uh, I, I gotta have, uh, my all time favorite album, uh, Sam cook live at the Harlem square club. And, uh, you know, I need something to play that album on. So, you know, whether, whether that's something digital or otherwise. So, yeah, I think, uh, I think I could, I could make it with those three.

Kandidly Kristin: Okay. All right. So extrovert or introvert?

Lamont Jones: I'm an extrovert.

Kandidly Kristin: Okay. Is there anything else you want to tell my listeners, but didn't have a chance to?

Lamont Jones: You know, you and I talked about our sort of respective card game origins. I want to make sure that I've made it clear for the listener that in the Gist of Bidwist, we offer a comprehensive playing guide, right? And I wrote the book and I've designed the book, not just for those of us who play Bidwist, not even for those of us, you know, who play spades or euchre or hearts or all hell or other card games. I'm really protective of that reader who says, you know what, I just don't get this card playing stuff. I'm the one who, you know, even grandma beats in the family. I don't have the card playing gene. I'm protective of that reader. And I want to bring that person along and teach them, you know, the fundamental card game skills so that they can enjoy this wondrous art form that the Pullman Porters and, you know, the dynamic, the dynamic black American culture has passed down for us.

Kandidly Kristin: Nice. Okay. Thank you. All right. Question number nine. Texts or phone calls? .Ooh, I talk too much as it is. Text me, please. DM me or something. Don't call. 

Lamont Jones: Text me. No doubt. 

Kandidly Kristin: All right. And last question, and this is the same for all of my guests. How can my listeners connect with you and get this book?

Lamont Jones:  Yeah. So please go to Amazon and get your copy of the Gist of Bidwist. To learn more about the game and maybe a little bit about me, if you're interested, check out the website, www.gistofbidwhist.com. And, uh, you know, I am on Twitter, so holler at me there. I'm Lamontsixnolow. Lamontsixnolow. So yeah, holler at me at Twitter as well.

Kandidly Kristin: All right. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Lamont. Thank you for your time. Thank you for this book. Thank you for this amazing chat. Just thank you. And I hope, I really, really hope it becomes an Amazon bestseller, a New York Times bestseller, gets made into a movie. I just, I wish you and the book all kinds of crazy success.

Lamont Jones: Thank you so much, Kristin, for spending time with me. Thank you for spending time with the Just a Bit West and thank you for sharing your platform with me.

Kandidly Kristin: Thank you. So listen guys, all of Lamont's contact info, because I know y'all wasn't writing nothing down, his website links, clickable links to where you can get the book, his social handles will be in the show notes. And please, please, please don't forget to visit my little old website at www.TheCandidShop.com, Kandidwith a K. Listen to an episode or 10, drop me a review, and share the show with your friends, neighbors, strangers, whoever. And until the next time, I want all of you to keep it safe, keep it healthy, and keep it kandid.